Why do you prefer not to use statistics? TFI does. Claire Borowick does. No reason to take their word for things when you can calculate the numbers yourself. Unless, of course, you want to resort to a non-argument like, "Well, that's your opinion."

A decision to confront Claire Borowick has nothing to do with my personal strength. Why waste time & energy confronting a pathological liar for the umpteenth time? Claire has been confronted on several occasions by a number of people about the veracity of her public statements, and her response is always the same: Deny and obfuscate. If you want to hold her up as a credible source of information about TFI's history, maybe you should get to know a few of the people whose lives have been permanently damaged by her bold-faced lies, denials, and coverups. Better yet, learn how to do your own statistics and determine for yourself whether her claims about TFI's sociology of suicides are correct.

Why is Max/Guest incessantly pushing current-Family-member Jeremy Spencer's new album on each and every post to which he submits? I have seen him bring it up more than 5 times in his various posts--even going as far as asking if anyone knows what Spencer is doing now (more than once)? It's a rather tranparent sales job if you ask me. The agenda is clear.[/quote

Thank you for confirming to me that he is a current member of TFI, which I was not aware of.
At least you were able to enlighten me as opposed to my having to enlighten other people!
Have you listened to it ? or is it the case that ex members cannot bare to think that someone who is a current member have achieved greatness!

Love God Bless

Max aka Guest

You mention John Travolta and Tom Cruise numerous times with relish, using them as your posterchildren as if they legitimize these fringe cults. You know you're reaching into the muck when the only name you can wave around for TF is Jeremy Spencer, when he is the closest thing to a celebrity "legitimizer" you can find. Ha ha. How about Jacquim Phoenix? Wasn't he one of you guys as a child?

Thank you for confirming to me that he is a current member of TFI, which I was not aware of. At least you were able to enlighten me as opposed to my having to enlighten other people! Have you listened to it ? or is it the case that ex members cannot bare to think that someone who is a current member have achieved greatness!

If you want to hold her up as a credible source of information about TFI's history, maybe you should get to know a few of the people whose lives have been permanently damaged by her bold-faced lies, denials, and coverups.

Quote:

Thank you for confirming to me that he is a current member of TFI, which I was not aware of. At least you were able to enlighten me as opposed to my having to enlighten other people! Have you listened to it ? or is it the case that ex members cannot bare to think that someone who is a current member have achieved greatness!

There's an article about Jeremy Spencer if you bother to look under People: Current and Former Members.

http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Jeremy_Spencer

I have little doubt that Spencer deserved to be inducted in the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame for his mastery of the slide guitar. Nevertheless, I'm not all that impressed with his work since joining TFI and leaving Fleetwood Mac. I thought his second solo album sucked when it came out in 1972--and I was a Family member at the time. For the most part, I'm not interested in music with heavy-handed, ideologically-based lyrics. I'm also not that big of a blues fan anymore, so I'm not likely to hunt down Spencer's newest albumn to see what's going on.

I think the stuff his children are doing is more progressive. It's interesting that Jynxt is donating proceeds from album sales to education aimed at prevening gay bashing. You can rest assured that wouldn't have happened if they were still members of TFI. So tell me, do you have the hots for one of the boys in the band? Is that what your sycophantic interest in the Family is about?

Here's the deal about Spencer Senior: The rules that apply to him only apply to about 2% of the Family's membership. That's because he's independently wealthy and has lived off the royalties from his Fleetwood albums for over three decades. He can pretty much do whatever he wants as long as he doesn't badmouth Berg or Zerby. That's not how it is for the other 98% of the membership. I wouldn't call him a typical disciple.

Max Reply
At least we agree on Jeremy Spencer’s mastery of the slide guitar and his indictment into the “Rock & Roll Hall Of Fameâ€

max wrote:

Max Reply
At least we agree on Jeremy Spencer’s mastery of the slide guitar and his indictment into the “Rock & Roll Hall Of Fameâ€

Piram wrote:

max wrote:

Max Reply
At least we agree on Jeremy Spencer’s mastery of the slide guitar and his indictment into the “Rock & Roll Hall Of Fameâ€

I found out about COG from wikipedia several months ago, and recently saw the Dr. Phil episode about it. What's struck me even more than how this is clearly among the worst excesses of idiotic hippie ideas about sex, it's comparable to Nazi Germany in terms of horrible, horrible, horrible ideas being put into practice and ruining people's lives.

A lot of the responsibility goes to David Berg and his obvious mental issues, but what of his followers? It is puzzling that, time and again, a bad idea in an attractive disguise can take on a life of its own and wreak havoc on a mass scale.

If there's anything we can take away from all of this, it's that as long as people gravitate towards what makes them feel good emotionally, or what superficially seems right, even if it's actually bad or destructive (which they can't see because they've been misled), this is going to happen again and again.

And that's truly a shame.

I am certain that the vast majority of members at the time were shocked at what Berg was advocating.We were shocked but did not speak up against it while in the family or if we did we were dealt with in various devastating ways or felt trapped and wrong for doubting.

I think so, too. It seemed to come down to being either "damned if you do, or damned if you don't."

ex-Sharon wrote:

I am certain that the vast majority of members at the time were shocked at what Berg was advocating.We were shocked but did not speak up against it while in the family or if we did we were dealt with in various devastating ways or felt trapped and wrong for doubting.

I think so, too. It seemed to come down to being either "damned if you do, or damned if you don't."

The Lord's Day as Sunday was called from Apostolic times has always been accorded special attention in the history of the Church because of its close connection with the very core of the Christian mystery.
It is a day of rest.
Max aka Guest

I think so, too. It seemed to come down to being either "damned if you do, or damned if you don't."

This is basically why, when my wife and I started to see what was happening, we decided to leave before it affected us in a much more direct way, like having our baby girl abused, etc. -- and we were convinced that this was not something to "sit down and reason out" with the local "shepherd"! -- We pretty much knew all his pat answers, etc. -- and judging from what Pickus apparently did to his ex-wife later in Hawaii(I read an article here which says that he and a group of thugs broke into her home kidnapped the children and beat her up), I´m glad we left at night! -- Even so, he came to the boat we were leaving on, but in front of so many witnesses, I suppose the only thing he could is what he did -- tell us we were "leaving God´s will" and that he would pray for us, etc. I can assure you that we did heave a big sigh of relief when that ship set sail, however...

Quote:

I think so, too. It seemed to come down to being either "damned if you do, or damned if you don't."

Quote:

This is basically why, when my wife and I started to see what was happening, we decided to leave before it affected us in a much more direct way, like having our baby girl abused, etc. -- and we were convinced that this was not something to "sit down and reason out" with the local "shepherd"! -- We pretty much knew all his pat answers, etc. -- and judging from what Pickus apparently did to his ex-wife later in Hawaii(I read an article here which says that he and a group of thugs broke into her home kidnapped the children and beat her up), I´m glad we left at night! -- Even so, he came to the boat we were leaving on, but in front of so many witnesses, I suppose the only thing he could is what he did -- tell us we were "leaving God´s will" and that he would pray for us, etc. I can assure you that we did heave a big sigh of relief when that ship set sail, however...

What a tale. Your wife is lucky she had a husband like you to take her out. Wish I had had the same.

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Nevada’s dominant religion is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the Mormons. If the Mormons wanted to, they could put a stop to gambling and prostitution in Nevada.

Denton and Morris detail the amazing rise and reach of Meyer Lansky – the mind that ran the city; exactly how criminals, politicians, and businessmen worked together to control Las Vegas; the curious interplay of the city with the fates of Joseph, John F., and Robert Kennedy; how Howard Hughes and J. Edgar Hoover vastly intensified the city's corruption; how Mormon bankers and Wall Street financiers have bankrolled and profited from casinos ruled by organized crime; how a handful of dedicated journalists and law enforcement officers were destroyed before they could expose the city's secrets.

The Money and the Power is a detailed and illuminating chronicle of an extraordinary place and time – and a provocative reinterpretation of twentieth-century American history.

Acheick wrote:

Quote:

I think so, too. It seemed to come down to being either "damned if you do, or damned if you don't."

Quote:

This is basically why, when my wife and I started to see what was happening, we decided to leave before it affected us in a much more direct way, like having our baby girl abused, etc. -- and we were convinced that this was not something to "sit down and reason out" with the local "shepherd"! -- We pretty much knew all his pat answers, etc. -- and judging from what Pickus apparently did to his ex-wife later in Hawaii(I read an article here which says that he and a group of thugs broke into her home kidnapped the children and beat her up), I´m glad we left at night! -- Even so, he came to the boat we were leaving on, but in front of so many witnesses, I suppose the only thing he could is what he did -- tell us we were "leaving God´s will" and that he would pray for us, etc. I can assure you that we did heave a big sigh of relief when that ship set sail, however...

What a tale. Your wife is lucky she had a husband like you to take her out. Wish I had had the same.

And our then-baby girl is now a brilliant and very successful professional rock singer, dancer, and model who also speaks 4 languages -- and we are very, very proud of her!!! Thank God we got out when we did!!!