Wittgenstein's TLP

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Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 03:58 pm
I feel that we should discuss the meaning of the TLP as a whole. The pieces must be fit together. What is his general intention? His picture theory of language is as much anti-anti-metaphysics as it is anti-metaphysics. And the TLP is itself metaphysical. As he describes logic, math, aesthetics, and ethics as transcendental. TLP is metaphysics done right. But in a style so terse that it's hard to see this. In my opinion.

I am quite willing to argue that Wittgenstein is the square root of Hegel, if not the cube root. This is a mathematical metaphor of course, but I know exactly what I mean by it.

Here is a free download, where it can be viewed as a whole. This is the one I have been quoting from. Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein - Project Gutenberg

Quote:

6.375 Just as the only necessity that exists is logical necessity, so
too the only impossibility that exists is logical impossibility.
Quote:

6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world
everything is as it is, and everything happens as it does happen: in it
no value exists--and if it did exist, it would have no value. If there
is any value that does have value, it must lie outside the whole sphere
of what happens and is the case. For all that happens and is the case
is accidental. What makes it non-accidental cannot lie within the world,
since if it did it would itself be accidental. It must lie outside the
world.

This is from Hegel's Logic...
Quote:

... there is nothing, nothing in heaven, or in nature or in mind or anywhere else which does not equally contain both immediacy and mediation, so that these two determinations reveal themselves to be unseparated and inseparable and the opposition between them to be a nullity.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 04:33 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;136968 wrote:
I feel that we should discuss the meaning of the TLP as a whole. The pieces must be fit together. What is his general intention? His picture theory of language is as much anti-anti-metaphysics as it is anti-metaphysics. And the TLP is itself metaphysical. As he describes logic, math, aesthetics, and ethics as transcendental. TLP is metaphysics done right. But in a style so terse that it's hard to see this. In my opinion.

I am quite willing to argue that Wittgenstein is the square root of Hegel, if not the cube root. This is a mathematical metaphor of course, but I know exactly what I mean by it.

Here is a free download, where it can be viewed as a whole. This is the one I have been quoting from. Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein - Project Gutenberg


This is from Hegel's Logic...


My God, Hegel was a plagiarist! What a discovery!
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 04:44 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;136986 wrote:
My God, Hegel was a plagiarist! What a discovery!


Don't be silly. Wittgenstein came after Hegel.
Quote:


Thus the aim of the book is to draw a limit to thought, or rather--not
to thought, but to the expression of thoughts: for in order to be able
to draw a limit to thought, we should have to find both sides of the
limit thinkable (i.e. we should have to be able to think what cannot be
thought).


It will therefore only be in language that the limit can be drawn, and
what lies on the other side of the limit will simply be nonsense.


I do not wish to judge how far my efforts coincide with those of other
philosophers. Indeed, what I have written here makes no claim to novelty
in detail, and the reason why I give no sources is that it is a matter
of indifference to me whether the thoughts that I have had have been
anticipated by someone else.


Try to be serious, K....this is great philosophy we are talking about.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 05:00 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;136996 wrote:
Don't be silly. Wittgenstein came after Hegel.


Try to be serious, K....this is great philosophy we are talking about.



No wonder I have been missing all of this. I got the sequence wrong! (It is really hard to be serious among all this silliness).
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 05:03 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;137011 wrote:
No wonder I have been missing all of this. I got the sequence wrong! (It is really hard to be serious among all this silliness).


Call it silliness, if you want. I chose to understand the great philosophers. I like philosophy. I'm sorry if you don't understand...

Put away your vanity, K, & give it some thought. It's quite clear to me, if not to you.
 
William
 
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 05:38 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;137013 wrote:
Call it silliness, if you want. I chose to understand the great philosophers. I like philosophy. I'm sorry if you don't understand...

Put away your vanity, K, & give it some thought. It's quite clear to me, if not to you.
''

Hello Recon. Keep up the good work. Your choice was a good one and you are very proficient at it, if I might add. :a-ok:

William
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 05:39 pm
@William,
William;137025 wrote:
''

Hello Recon. Keep up the good work. Your choice was a good one and you are very proficient at it, if I might add. :a-ok:

William


Thank you kindly, my brother! It's really a beautiful thing...this beast known as philosophy.
 
William
 
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 07:17 pm
@Reconstructo,
My pleasure and you're welcome. If only beauty could have been more of a part, huh? Hell, we cut of her arms, put snakes in her hair, and the woman closest to christ was a whore. Yep, you can say that is indeed beastly. After all mankind is just an animal, right?

Later,
William
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2010 09:09 am
@William,
William;137051 wrote:
My pleasure and you're welcome. If only beauty could have been more of a part, huh? Hell, we cut of her arms, put snakes in her hair, and the woman closest to christ was a whore. Yep, you can say that is indeed beastly. After all mankind is just an animal, right?

Later,
William


It's interesting this whore/virgin symbolism. His mother is blue virgin. His other Mary was the reformed prostitute, or so the story goes. One might say that a virgin hides in the core of the most promiscous whore, as the transcendental is immaculate by definition. Blake wrote a great poem around theses themes.

For Blake, all accusation and finger-pointing was of the Devil. Therefore much of the religion of his day was of the Devil. Christ was Forgiveness, and also Energy, the Eternal Delight.
Quote:

Truly, my Satan, thou art but a dunce,
And dost not know the garment from the man;
Every harlot was a virgin once,
Nor canst thou ever change Kate into Nan.

Tho' thou art worship'd by the names divine
Of Jesus and Jehovah, thou art still
The Son of Morn in weary Night's decline,
The lost traveller's dream under the hill.
 
William
 
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2010 11:08 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;137190 wrote:
It's interesting this whore/virgin symbolism. His mother is blue virgin. His other Mary was the reformed prostitute, or so the story goes. One might say that a virgin hides in the core of the most promiscous whore, as the transcendental is immaculate by definition. Blake wrote a great poem around theses themes.

For Blake, all accusation and finger-pointing was of the Devil. Therefore much of the religion of his day was of the Devil. Christ was Forgiveness, and also Energy, the Eternal Delight.


As it has been the "whore" has justification in that to survive, services rendered are of a necessity, yet in the heart is the purity. Blake was right and what the stone throwing was all about. I think this is what you are referring to. I have often wondered what happened in those 18 years and why 18 years? From puberty to what can be understood as adulthood?


[CENTER]"Truly, my Satan, thou art but a dunce,
And dost not know the garment from the man;
Every harlot was a virgin once,
Nor canst thou ever change Kate into Nan.

Tho' thou art worship'd by the names divine
Of Jesus and Jehovah, thou art still
The Son of Morn in weary Night's decline,
The lost traveller's dream under the hill".
[/CENTER]

Yes, we do hide our ignorance. Even the smartest man can be ignorant behind his adornments. And yes it would be interesting to know how many do "see the light" when approaching death? Hmm! "No atheists in fox holes, ha"!

William
 
jack phil
 
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2010 12:48 pm
@Reconstructo,
Ah, Reconstructo, you are reading the McGuiness translation? I don't wish to be translation picky, but do you have a favorite translation of the Bible?

What of the numbers before the propositions?

Wink
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2010 04:30 pm
@jack phil,
jack;137258 wrote:
Ah, Reconstructo, you are reading the McGuiness translation? I don't wish to be translation picky, but do you have a favorite translation of the Bible?

What of the numbers before the propositions?

Wink


Well, translation matters. I do wish I already knew German, as its on my to-do list. Yes, McGuiness paperback & quoting from that online source. On the bible? King James or Geneva. I have this beautiful Geneva N.T.

The King James Bible does seem to be one of the best books(libraries) in English. Would you agree?

What think ye on the general drift of my interpretation(TLP)?

I just did some research to see if anyone shares my general interpretation...
The Mystical in Wittgenstein's Early ... - Google Books
 
jack phil
 
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2010 09:17 pm
@Reconstructo,
I like that you like the TLP. And, yes, I like the King James. Ill be starting Numbers tonight. As for the TLP, I am quite inclined to the CK Ogden translation as it was the one which was approved by W. And there are some resources revealing the discussions he had with Ramsey and Ogden prior to its publication.

HL Finch knew W decently well, but I think I responded to a Blog of yours with more on that.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 12:33 am
@jack phil,
jack;137375 wrote:
I like that you like the TLP.


It's a sculpture.
 
 

 
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