Philosophical Investigations reading group?

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Deckard
 
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 05:32 pm
Any interest in a Tractatus reading group.

Philosophical Investigations might seem like a better choice but I think tackling Tractatus would ultimately be more interesting.


***Edit***


After reading other people's comments I'm thinking PI is the better choice after all.

***Edit***

Then I added Tractatus back.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 05:35 pm
@Deckard,
Deckard;128698 wrote:
Any interest in a Tractatus reading group.

Philosophical Investigations might seem like a better choice but I think tackling Tractatus would ultimately be more interesting.


The Tractatus is an interesting book, of course. But, as you know, it was repudiated by its author as mistaken and wrong-headed.
 
RDanneskjld
 
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 07:16 pm
@Deckard,
The Tractatus is certainly a very interesting book, but it is certainly not an easy book to tackle. To tackle it in a worthwhile manor would take months of devotion and a high degree of competence in formal logic.

Where as the Investigations, while not being a walk in the park is a much more accessible and is also far more relevant to much of the work that is ongoing in Philosophy departments across the world.

Personally I would be interested in a reading group for either book.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 08:22 pm
@RDanneskjld,
R.Danneskjöld;128742 wrote:
The Tractatus is certainly a very interesting book, but it is certainly not an easy book to tackle. To tackle it in a worthwhile manor would take months of devotion and a high degree of competence in formal logic.

Where as the Investigations, while not being a walk in the park is a much more accessible and is also far more relevant to much of the work that is ongoing in Philosophy departments across the world.

Personally I would be interested in a reading group for either book.


I do propose a very slow reading. Tractatus is the one that I think is the most inaccessible of the two. PI came second and assumes at least some knowledge of the Tractatus. It also represents an important moment in philosophical history - it was basically the bible of the logical positivists who I have always wanted to understand better if only to refute them better.

The Zarathustra group is still going (sort of). We started at the beginning of the year and we're only up to chapter 8. I wouldn't expect a Tractatus group to go any faster. It would of course be a very different kind of discussion from the Zarathustra discussion.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 08:49 pm
@Deckard,
Deckard;128698 wrote:
Any interest in a Tractatus reading group.

Philosophical Investigations might seem like a better choice but I think tackling Tractatus would ultimately be more interesting.


Any kind of Wittgenstein group would appeal to me.
 
jgweed
 
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2010 11:18 am
@Deckard,
For logical positivism, one could read Language, Truth, and Logic. I would prefer PI; it seems more influential in contemporary philosophy. Of course, "more influential" could also mean: subjects that seem interesting and important to my own current philosophical problems.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2010 02:57 pm
@jgweed,
Yeah I'm coming around to Philosophical Investigations as the better choice.
 
RDanneskjld
 
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2010 03:44 pm
@Deckard,
You can count me in!
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2010 05:28 pm
@RDanneskjld,
What did you land on? let me know and i will join.
I have a copy of 'the philosophical investigations' but it is part of an anthology set of critical essays so is hard to get through.
What would be a good copy i can run with?
 
Deckard
 
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2010 06:13 pm
@sometime sun,
I tried starting a new group. Looks like after enough members have joined it can be created as a real sub-forum.

http://www.philosophyforum.com/groups/33-philosophical-investigations-discussion-group.html

We will need to divide up the text in some fashion.
Is there any more or less standard division of Part I?
 
RDanneskjld
 
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2010 08:10 pm
@Deckard,
sometime sun;129168 wrote:
What did you land on? let me know and i will join.
I have a copy of 'the philosophical investigations' but it is part of an anthology set of critical essays so is hard to get through.
What would be a good copy i can run with?


You cant go wrong with the Blackwell Third Edition of Philosophical Investigations
Deckard;129173 wrote:
I tried starting a new group. Looks like after enough members have joined it can be created as a real sub-forum.

http://www.philosophyforum.com/groups/33-philosophical-investigations-discussion-group.html

We will need to divide up the text in some fashion.
Is there any more or less standard division of Part I?


The way the text is divided up often depends on the interpretation of the work. With different commentators dividing up the text as they see fit. But there is considerable debate over where certain famous arguements from the text begin. But looking at points 1-40 together is generally a solid place start with Wittgenstein outlining a basic language game and also making some other pertinent points.

It should be noted the most recent published edition of the Philosophical Investigations has republished Part 2 under the title Philosophy of Psychology - A Fragment and have numbered the remarks for ease of refrence. The editors have also made considerable changes from Anscombe's orginal English translation. The corectness of these changes I am unsure of having not seen the new edition.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:09 pm
@RDanneskjld,
The blackwell one is pretty much all there is available, but mine should be on its way, thanks
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 12:18 pm
@Deckard,
I would be very interested in this.
 
jack phil
 
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 01:34 pm
@Deckard,
Quote:
You cant go wrong with the Blackwell Third Edition of Philosophical Investigations


What he said. Fans tend towards the third edition as best, but don't take my word for it, I have yet to read any other.

However, this may be late, I would like to express interest in the Tractatus reading group. It has been a while since I read it. I am reading the Philosophical Grammar right now.

I would warrant the recommendation that reading the Tratatus is the best way to start with Wittgenstein. There is a lot of jab these days about how Wittgenstein refuted it, or thought it incorrect, or bad, or whatever. It's a lot of jab. I don't think this is the right place to say more, though maybe in another thread.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 06:02 pm
@jack phil,
jack;129384 wrote:
What he said. Fans tend towards the third edition as best, but don't take my word for it, I have yet to read any other.

However, this may be late, I would like to express interest in the Tractatus reading group. It has been a while since I read it. I am reading the Philosophical Grammar right now.

I would warrant the recommendation that reading the Tratatus is the best way to start with Wittgenstein. There is a lot of jab these days about how Wittgenstein refuted it, or thought it incorrect, or bad, or whatever. It's a lot of jab. I don't think this is the right place to say more, though maybe in another thread.


That was my original feeling too. I have many more questions about Tractatus at the moment than I do about PI.

Furthermore, Tractatus divides up very nicely Preface and then 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. We could have a thread for each. PI doesn't lend itself to such a nice and neat division. I'm back to advocating for Tractatus.

I'm so decisive.:sarcastic:
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 06:26 pm
@Deckard,
Is that supposed to be funny, which one is it, why not just both, start at the beginning end at the end.
Let me know please.

---------- Post added 02-18-2010 at 12:39 AM ----------

Nevermind getting both.
 
Owen phil
 
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 07:34 pm
@Deckard,
1* The world is all that is the case.

Can we say the 'world' is all that exists, instead?

The world is all that is.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 07:43 pm
@Owen phil,
Owen;129500 wrote:
1* The world is all that is the case.

Can we say the 'world' is all that exists, instead?

The world is all that is.


Eh, that's the Tractatus, not the PI.

This is not beginning well.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 09:18 pm
@kennethamy,
Here are two groups. One for Tractatus and one for PI.
If you want to use them that's fine. If you don't that is fine too.
The reason I started this thread was to gauge interest and to come to some kind of consensus as to how to divide up the text and organize the reading. I was not clear on that.

Once enough people join a group it can be created as a sub-forum that will show up down in the Social Groups section. The PI group already shows up down there.

http://www.philosophyforum.com/groups/34-tractatus-reading-group.html

http://www.philosophyforum.com/groups/33-philosophical-investigations-discussion-group.html

I'll likely participate in both. Tractatus is as easy enough to divide up but I don't know how to divide up PI.

Arbitrary blocks of 20 paragraphs wouldn't work very well. We could go nonlinear on PI. Just start a thread in that group with the section and paragraph numbers that most interest you.
 
Emil
 
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2010 10:01 pm
@Deckard,
I read the Tractatus. It's nearly impossible to understand unless one has read some secondary work too and know one's logic. I happen to be good with logic, so it wasn't that hard, though I don't recall much of it. Didn't seem useful to memorize.
 
 

 
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