What is Jihad in Islam

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

ahmedjbh
 
Reply Mon 19 Oct, 2009 04:34 pm
@Justin,
I am ignoring xris from here on in, if his style of discussion matures I will chat, but currently it's little more than a silly game. He makes wild unsupported statements, then when he's proven wrong, he changes topic and the cycle restarts.

I think he feels that by denouncing any stereotypes he would be somehow converting to islam and betraying all that he currently values. Some one can be factually correct about islam and not be a Muslim, it's very possible.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 20 Oct, 2009 04:07 am
@Pangloss,
Pangloss;98599 wrote:


You've made plenty of sweeping categorical statements about muslims and their supposed violent beliefs in the past. You once asked me (and have many times asked others) to justify this claim with evidence, so here goes:



















Now, in light of this clear 'evidence', I would hope that yourself and perhaps the moderating staff could review the FAQ, under the "bigotry and stereotyping" heading, posted here on this forum, which states:



You could have been more prudent in many of your judgmental posts and simply written "extremist muslims", rather than "muslims", but you didn't. And you've failed to do this not once, or a couple times, but in many instances.

These categorical statements are just ignorant, and should not be tolerated here at a philosophy forum. I don't know if they're the result of bigotry or not, but they do violate the rules, regardless. You also stated in a couple of different posts quite clearly that you are on a "crusade" against dogmatism, and are wary of Islam, in particular. Well, the religion forums can only work here if you and your ilk are kept out of them, and reasonable discussions held. :brickwall:
Taking statements out of context is no more than blatant properganda on your part. If you wish to make a complaint against my behaviour or attitude then be precise and act in a formal manner. I would say to you put up or shut up.

---------- Post added 10-20-2009 at 05:11 AM ----------

ahmedjbh;98607 wrote:
I am ignoring xris from here on in, if his style of discussion matures I will chat, but currently it's little more than a silly game. He makes wild unsupported statements, then when he's proven wrong, he changes topic and the cycle restarts.

I think he feels that by denouncing any stereotypes he would be somehow converting to islam and betraying all that he currently values. Some one can be factually correct about islam and not be a Muslim, it's very possible.
You can ignore who you like but your misquoting of scriptures is clearly seen. No statement of mine has ever been proven to be wrong other than those i have admitted to. When you ask for the proof, its the wrong source, but your misquoted source is acceptable, o how very convenient.
 
Pangloss
 
Reply Tue 20 Oct, 2009 10:28 am
@xris,
xris;98713 wrote:
Taking statements out of context is no more than blatant properganda on your part. If you wish to make a complaint against my behaviour or attitude then be precise and act in a formal manner. I would say to you put up or shut up.


Wow, I guess there's no convincing you, even with your own words. The posts were quoted correctly, I simply highlighted the problematic comments for brevity, but anyone can simply click the link next to your name to get the full context on each post. But it's not needed anyway, when you are making categorical statements like "muslims are..." "muslims believe..." "muslims think...", in order to negatively characterize well over a billion people who belong to the same faith tradition.

These statements violate forum rules, and nobody seems to care. That's great. You will unfortunately be the 2nd person on this forum to enter my ignore list. :a-ok: Good day.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 20 Oct, 2009 11:36 am
@Pangloss,
Pangloss;98790 wrote:
Wow, I guess there's no convincing you, even with your own words. The posts were quoted correctly, I simply highlighted the problematic comments for brevity, but anyone can simply click the link next to your name to get the full context on each post. But it's not needed anyway, when you are making categorical statements like "muslims are..." "muslims believe..." "muslims think...", in order to negatively characterize well over a billion people who belong to the same faith tradition.

These statements violate forum rules, and nobody seems to care. That's great. You will unfortunately be the 2nd person on this forum to enter my ignore list. :a-ok: Good day.
Well you wont hear my answer to your exaggerated and abusive post. I asked you to put up or shut up and by your reply we see you have no case to put, so you have shut up.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Tue 20 Oct, 2009 12:51 pm
@Pangloss,
Pangloss;98790 wrote:
These statements violate forum rules, and nobody seems to care.
We know and we do.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 20 Oct, 2009 01:03 pm
@Aedes,
Aedes;98821 wrote:
We know and we do.
So why dont you question my statements. More than once i have tried to ask for my posts to be examined for any generalisation and condemnation of a group of people. Making generalised accusations is very good but lets see the details. More than once i have tried to make concessions, look back over the last five posts, what has made you change your proclaimed views on my posts, a complaint?

I just dont understand how Christians can be accused of barbarous acts when on crusades or in the Americas, without this being seen as an attack on all Christians, this double standards has to be confronted. I demand we examine these complaints about my views and expressed opinions.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Tue 20 Oct, 2009 01:49 pm
@Justin,
First, you are correct that there is a double standard, and this is a separate problem that we need to overcome. On the other hand, groups that are underrepresented in our discussion, and that don't have a voice, do require a bit more protection.

Xris, I've questioned and contested your statements in many posts, in many threads, over many months, and it's all there for you to see if you do a search. Rather than distracting this whole discussion with this, why don't we work on operating from a reasonable common ground (that I know you share to some degree) in which we can critically discuss things without even seeming bigoted.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 20 Oct, 2009 02:23 pm
@Aedes,
Aedes;98837 wrote:
First, you are correct that there is a double standard, and this is a separate problem that we need to overcome. On the other hand, groups that are underrepresented in our discussion, and that don't have a voice, do require a bit more protection.

Xris, I've questioned and contested your statements in many posts, in many threads, over many months, and it's all there for you to see if you do a search. Rather than distracting this whole discussion with this, why don't we work on operating from a reasonable common ground (that I know you share to some degree) in which we can critically discuss things without even seeming bigoted.
Im prepared to try and moderate my opinions but when confronted with a constant barrage of accusations without the necessary examination, I refuse to stand down. Ive tried to ignore the thread but it gets regurgitated and the truth is never tested, except by me. I will leave it again as long, as the truth is examined by everyone.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Fri 23 Oct, 2009 06:17 pm
@Justin,
If one looks at their comparative dissemination patterns, Christianity spread by acquiring believers and then land; Islam spread by acquiring land and then believers.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Fri 23 Oct, 2009 07:25 pm
@xris,
xris;98843 wrote:
Im prepared to try and moderate my opinions but when confronted with a constant barrage of accusations without the necessary examination, I refuse to stand down.
You've been provided with a tremendous amount of data, perspective, and experience that you fail to match except by quoting extremist websites and highly selective quotations from a religious document that you've never studied. The issue isn't about moderating your opinions, it's about being an intellectually inquisitive adult and having a bit of humility about what you think you understand.

Now either get this back on topic or I'll put the thread to rest.
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2009 03:14 am
@Aedes,
Aedes;99549 wrote:
You've been provided with a tremendous amount of data, perspective, and experience that you fail to match except by quoting extremist websites and highly selective quotations from a religious document that you've never studied. The issue isn't about moderating your opinions, it's about being an intellectually inquisitive adult and having a bit of humility about what you think you understand.

Now either get this back on topic or I'll put the thread to rest.
Well if it has to be a blinkered and one sided view that you advocate then get on with it. The website i gave you, was giving an honest view of Jihad from a muslim perspective, if that does not satisfy your objections, nothing will, so be my guest close the thread.Offensive Jihad, Futuhat and Islamic Conquests You tell me why you think this is an extreme site, it refers to muslim web sites for its source and quotes scriptures, are the scriptures misquoted?
 
josh0335
 
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2009 07:49 am
@xris,
xris;99573 wrote:
Well if it has to be a blinkered and one sided view that you advocate then get on with it. The website i gave you, was giving an honest view of Jihad from a muslim perspective, if that does not satisfy your objections, nothing will, so be my guest close the thread.Offensive Jihad, Futuhat and Islamic Conquests You tell me why you think this is an extreme site, it refers to muslim web sites for its source and quotes scriptures, are the scriptures misquoted?


This is an anti-Islam website, as stated on the home page:

"This site aims to provide a growing number of quotes - preferably & mainly from islamic sites and sources - that contradict many popular claims of muslims, e.g. on the alleged tolerance, peacefulness or women-friendliness of Islam."

This site does not pretend to understand the sources it is quoting nor does it explain the context of the quotes that are being presented. You're not serious about having an intellectual discussion about Islam.
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2009 08:40 am
@josh0335,
josh0335;99585 wrote:
This is an anti-Islam website, as stated on the home page:

"This site aims to provide a growing number of quotes - preferably & mainly from islamic sites and sources - that contradict many popular claims of muslims, e.g. on the alleged tolerance, peacefulness or women-friendliness of Islam."

This site does not pretend to understand the sources it is quoting nor does it explain the context of the quotes that are being presented. You're not serious about having an intellectual discussion about Islam.
Try finding a balanced view on Islam that does not put its own opinion into the debate. I was asked to find a site that gave a source to my claims, there are many that are a darned sight more extreme in their views and opinions from both sides of the debate, than this one. I thought it might be a good chance for you dispute the details of these claims. Is it interpretation your concern or the scriptures quoted.

If we point to countries that give us concern on the execution of Islam we are told they are not true examples. If we listen to Islamic rhetoric from preachers we are told they extremists. If we read scriptures that appear to encourage forced reversion, we are told its wrongly interpreted. You tell me how we can get a true impression of Islam.

Are you a member of Ummah forum?
 
josh0335
 
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2009 12:12 pm
@xris,
xris;99598 wrote:
Try finding a balanced view on Islam that does not put its own opinion into the debate. I was asked to find a site that gave a source to my claims, there are many that are a darned sight more extreme in their views and opinions from both sides of the debate, than this one. I thought it might be a good chance for you dispute the details of these claims. Is it interpretation your concern or the scriptures quoted.


Fair enough, but then go to the opinion of the mainstream Muslim if you want to be fair. Going to an anti-Islam website is sloppy research. Not everything on that website is actually from scripture. Much of it is from words of various scholars and 'non-scholars' from over the years. I remember reading something that said Muslims should terrorise the enemy by stationing themselves on the border and systematically raiding them. That is not scripture, that was the opinion of someone who lived during the wars between the Muslims and the Persian Empire.

Quote:
If we point to countries that give us concern on the execution of Islam we are told they are not true examples. If we listen to Islamic rhetoric from preachers we are told they extremists. If we read scriptures that appear to encourage forced reversion, we are told its wrongly interpreted. You tell me how we can get a true impression of Islam.


By asking Muslims. I'm a Muslim, ask me. Take what I say and ask another Muslim and see if they agree etc. Come now, I can get a balanced view about Christianity and Judaism using this method (at least I think I have), I'm sure you can do the same.

Quote:
Are you a member of Ummah forum?


No I'm not. Why do you ask?
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2009 01:16 pm
@josh0335,
I ask because i attempted to understand Islam, because of its bad press,so i joined this certain forum.

Islam was not significant to me as a youth but as i noticed a growing population in my community, certain feelings of invasion came to me. My mother, bless her, gave me the morals to accept and never judge harshly without good cause, those who become your new neighbours. It was never considered that they had any intentions of harming me or my family. As unfortunate acts became obvious i attempted to understand their motives and the religion that they followed. I came to it with an open mind and I found this schizophrenic forum,certain members expresing absolute hatred for anything western and a fundamentalist attitude that made me feel sick and angry. Not all of them had this effect but many openly gave me these interpretations saying gods book can not be altered or rewritten whatever the objections of the moderate Muslim. If the views expressed there was in any small way representative of muslims views then we should all be worried about our future, moderate Muslim and non believers. This is where i initially heard these claims from Muslim fundamentalists not anti Muslim web sites. It even censors the controversial threads from the casual visitor.
 
josh0335
 
Reply Sat 24 Oct, 2009 02:29 pm
@xris,
I don't think I've ever been on that forum. I'm sorry you've had a negative experience with some Muslims. We're not all bad and Islam is not as rigid as certain Muslims portray it as. Alot of these attiudes come from frustration and anger at what are seen as injustices in the world. Also, a lot of free literature from Saudi Arabia is distributed around the world, which teaches the very literalist interpretation of Islam.
 
 

 
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 08/17/2019 at 08:00:16