Knowledge is dependent upon a mind to know it. The knowledge you have concerning the biological workings of nature is dependent upon that knowledge first being known by a mind.

Existence without consciousness is inconceivable because existence entails awareness.

One could say that minerals would exist without the mind's understanding of nutrients, but what would minerals be without our understanding of them and what sort existence would that be?

Certainly nothing we would ever be able to grasp, and certainly not what I mean when I use the words mineral and exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by north
I see

in order for one to think one must need a brain

and the brain is built upon .....nutrients , such as minerals , vitamins , carbs etc , hence then , the mind



if that is true , then you should fully understand all of life on Earth with no in depth study of life on Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by north
[

existence without us

When I use the word mineral, I mean the knowledge I have about minerals because that is the only thing about minerals I know.

And when I say exist, I mean to be because existence almost always entails being something.

The knowledge I have about minerals is dependent upon my perceptions, and the perceptions of others which have produced the language that describes them.

Other than our perceptions of things, we have no further access of them. We can come to an understanding of things by applying words to describe them, but as for the things apart from our perceptions of them, they would not exist without a perceiver.

What would there be without perceptions?

Quite literally nothing, as something must be perceived to be anything; otherwise, there wouldn't be anything for it to be.

What we know as reality is based on what we perceive, and what we perceive is contingent on a perceiving mind.

The brain, as we perceive it, only exists because of our definition of it. Life is constantly changing, as are our perceptions, but because of the ability to communicate, we can rationalize our conceptions with other people and create ideas such as the brain, but what we mean by "brain" is still only the idea "brain".

Communication creates objective reality, and without some level of intersubjective communication, there would be no objectivity, just radical isolation and in my opinion nothing.

[CENTER]:bigsmile:

I am convinced there is a Moment a Human finds it's Essence. Becoming Aware of this does noT mean the Essence as in Quality was not Present.[/CENTER]

[CENTER]So a body can be existing without be:ing Aware[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Pepijn Sweep
Magister aa:lol:n't IJ[/CENTER]

I think that it is necessary that they occur simultaneously. Think about a machine. The parts of the machine exist independently, but the essence of the machine itself does not come about until the exact moment that it is assembled as the existence of the machine does not come about until it is assembled. Until you have both, you have neither, for before, you have something else entirely.

I think that it is necessary that they occur simultaneously. Think about a machine. The parts of the machine exist independently, but the essence of the machine itself does not come about until the exact moment that it is assembled as the existence of the machine does not come about until it is assembled. Until you have both, you have neither, for before, you have something else entirely.

That is the point I was trying to get at. For biological processes to occur, experience must take place with it simultaneously. Without consciousness/perception, there would be no function of the brain or minerals, and there would be no way to differentiate between anything; therefore perception is bedrock for existence to occur.

Evolution also cannot occur without perception, as it is only through natural selection that evolution takes place. At every level of evolution, a process of "selection" takes place, which entails some degree of consciousness/awareness.

The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Does existence really precede essence?...no

Evolution is blind...It is not a choice the species makes, but a choice nature makes for the species...

The existence of humans is the reason why humans can represent things-beings as such and such, and why we can be aware of them as such and such. All awareness of some given essence in its general contingency presupposes existence. Whence could essence move if it were not for the essence of existence in the first place?

I think that it is necessary that they occur simultaneously. Think about a machine. The parts of the machine exist independently, but the essence of the machine itself does not come about until the exact moment that it is assembled as the existence of the machine does not come about until it is assembled. Until you have both, you have neither, for before, you have something else entirely.

The existence of humans is the reason why humans can represent things-beings as such and such, and why we can be aware of them as such and such. All awareness of some given essence in its general contingency presupposes existence. Whence could essence move if it were not for the essence of existence in the first place?

Well, if you understand that people have no choice, then what are you going to do. They gotta do what they gotta do? In any case, you are neither excusing behavior or explaining it in a deterministic society. You are just doing what you gotta do. There is no difference in anything. You and Einstein and the criminals are just both doing what is already determined. It is all flat. Everyone is just doing what they are determined to do, with no differences, no judgments.

I am not sure that I was clear in my post. I think essence and existence are intertwined. There is no separation in my conception of Life.

Rich

Evolution is blind...It is not a choice the species makes, but a choice nature makes for the species...

Evolution does use the species as tools for the choices to be made, but I feel evolution is anything but blind, or else monkeys would evolve into amoeba.

You seem to be severing nature from evolution and both of them from the species which make them both up. I don't see that need.

The members of species do consciously make choices that influence their evolution, even though it is also the case that evolution guides those choices. Its a circular relationship which make them dependent upon each other. Much like the essence of the species is to exist and to exist as a flux. To Evolve.