Zarathustra reading group?

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Deckard
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 04:18 am
Is anyone interested in a Zarathustra reading group? I'm sure it would be enjoyable. Each chapter would get a posting and four to five days to allow time for comments and discussion before moving on to the next chapter. We could start on new years. 80 chapters at four days a chapter would finish the project before the end of the year (320 days). Any interest?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 06:17 am
@Deckard,
Deckard;114389 wrote:
Is anyone interested in a Zarathustra reading group? I'm sure it would be enjoyable. Each chapter would get a posting and four to five days to allow time for comments and discussion before moving on to the next chapter. We could start on new years. 80 chapters at four days a chapter would finish the project before the end of the year (320 days). Any interest?


Sounds fine, as long as it doesn't divert people from philosophy.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 07:59 am
@Deckard,
I would be interested, but after the new semester starts, I probably will not be able to follow too much. I just ran through the book in my senior capstone class on N, and I have read the book numerous times besides so I will be able help greatly.
 
jgweed
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 08:58 am
@Deckard,
Not all chapters are of equal importance, and setting a schedule might turn into something like a chore that takes the enjoyment out of the discussion.

I would hope, additionally, that our discussion could take the chapter as a point of departure for a discussion of his thinking in other works. Everyone has read Z (at least once), and some have read some (if not all) of his other works; linking Z to other passages would be useful to everyone since his themes are developed (and evolve) throughout his writings. It's a shame there isn't a concordance available.

The same could be said for the secondary literature; one supposes most have read Kaufmann, but not everyone has read all the different interpretations.

These considerations might suggest that the rate of chapters and schedule are very ambitious, and that following it might result in less-than-optimal discussion and content.

Either way, please count me in.
John
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 10:27 am
@jgweed,
Count me in too.

When would be a good time to start?
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 12:49 pm
@Deckard,
I know I could come up with a list of the important chapters in Zarathustra that might add focus to a reading group. For example, most of the fourth book is not that important (we even skipped it in my class) and some of the others just seem to set up other more important things or the minor plot in the background.

I would definitely be up for connecting N's ideas across works and even work with the secondary literature--which I have done a bit of both so far.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 03:41 pm
@jgweed,
jgweed;114418 wrote:
Not all chapters are of equal importance, and setting a schedule might turn into something like a chore that takes the enjoyment out of the discussion.

I would hope, additionally, that our discussion could take the chapter as a point of departure for a discussion of his thinking in other works. Everyone has read Z (at least once), and some have read some (if not all) of his other works; linking Z to other passages would be useful to everyone since his themes are developed (and evolve) throughout his writings. It's a shame there isn't a concordance available.

The same could be said for the secondary literature; one supposes most have read Kaufmann, but not everyone has read all the different interpretations.

These considerations might suggest that the rate of chapters and schedule are very ambitious, and that following it might result in less-than-optimal discussion and content.

Either way, please count me in.
John


Yes, the chapters would be points of departure for discussion and that discussion could drift as far from the text as it wanted to.
And I wouldn't want the discussion to be rushed. However, if the chapter threads are separate from each other then discussion would continue on older threads even as new ones were added so I don't think his would be a major problem. How about a week per chapter? It will easier to post every Friday than every fourth day anyway. That stretches the project to a year and a half or so.


I don't really want to skip anything. If a chapter thread doesn't have many or any comments that's no big deal as earlier threads will likely be keeping us entertained.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 03:51 pm
@Deckard,
Sounds good. Lucifer willing, I will be there.
 
Octal
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 05:55 pm
@Reconstructo,
Would there be any issues involving different translations?
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 05:59 pm
@Deckard,
Well, we would pretty much have to use the Kaufmann translation since that is the one most people have. I am sure that both the Hollingdale and Martin (the best one that I have read) translations would be ok as well, but the Common translation would not work at all since it is horribly inaccurate.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 06:08 pm
@Octal,
Octal;114500 wrote:
Would there be any issues involving different translations?


I don't think it will be a big problem. It is more likely to be the source of interesting discussion. Perhaps there will even be need to go back to the original German.

It is possible that not all participants will have a copy of Zarathustra. So the first post of each chapter's thread will be a link to an online free translation. Perhaps Common's translation on Google books? Or perhaps someone with more expertise can suggest a better free online text? Unfortunately, the full text of Kauffman's translation is not available for free online.

Here's a link to a translation.
Thus spake Zarathustra: a book for ... - Google BooksTheaetetus says this translation is no good but that there isn't much better free online.
Theaetetus recommends the Clancy Martin translation. I think most of us will prefer to have a hard copy anyway.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 07:07 pm
@Deckard,
I have not read this before so would appreciate any pointers as long as you dont ruin it for me, no spoilers please. I like my experiences to be chronological, sequential and roughly climatical, dont presume either that all have a tight understanding of what it is all about, New to this work, dont make me run before i can walk, dont rush me either, and we must follow it properly. Nothing, no chapter is to be overlooked, with the timetable we will all see if there is anyhting worth regarding as we go along but i would hazard to add that some chapter may be ongoing longer than the next, what i suppose you are saying is that only the next chapter has been read by the time alloted even if we dont want to move on from the previous. We may be playing catch up all along, or even rushing at some points which i doubt for it is Nietzsche is nt it?
Some will have more to say on some than others.
I will need a hard copy so may have to wait, so please if you could have a link to any free online edition of merit that would be great, at least the first three chapters until i can get hold of one of my own, the postal service this time of year not so great.
'All aboard', when will be departure? The 1st?
If you want me to learn German the original transcript then this will need some time also.

I am going to get three copies the Kaufmann and Graham Parks and an audio just for good measure
 
Deckard
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 07:57 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;114512 wrote:
I have not read this before so would appreciate any pointers as long as you dont ruin it for me, no spoilers please.

I am going to get three copies the Kaufmann and Graham Parks and an audio just for good measure


There will be different levels of erudition I'm sure. I am only a novice myself. We can't forbid spoilers; there are references in the beginning to what comes later so this will be unavoidable or at least not to be avoided. (For example I'm sorry to ruin the surprise but God is dead :bigsmile:.)

I don't think three different copies will be necessary but again there will be different levels of erudition. Still looking for recommendation for best free online translation...
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 10:59 pm
@Deckard,
Deckard;114520 wrote:
There will be different levels of erudition I'm sure. I am only a novice myself. We can't forbid spoilers; there are references in the beginning to what comes later so this will be unavoidable or at least not to be avoided. (For example I'm sorry to ruin the surprise but God is dead :bigsmile:.)

I don't think three different copies will be necessary but again there will be different levels of erudition. Still looking for recommendation for best free online translation...


One to read, one to compare/contrast and one to hear all seem pretty necessary to/for me, (this is as close to philosophical Scripture that there can be if my enquiries are not letting me down?)

God is only dead because man, a man killed him, or said so, so he wouldn't have to deal with him at breakfast:bigsmile:

So the 1st of Jan we must have the first chapter read, or we start reading and give ourselves three or more days?
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 11:03 pm
@Deckard,
Honestly, just buy the Barnes and Noble Classics edition of the Clancy Martin translation. It is very readable, recent, and consults both Kaufmann and Hollingdale--and only costs $8.

By the way, the posted link is the Thomas Common translation, and it totally stinks. Don't waste your time. Unfortunately, there seems to be nothing better out there that I can find so you will have to buy it, or I will see what else is out there in the deep sea of the web.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 26 Dec, 2009 11:14 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;114541 wrote:
Honestly, just buy the Barnes and Noble Classics edition of the Clancy Martin translation. It is very readable, recent, and consults both Kaufmann and Hollingdale--and only costs $8.

By the way, the posted link is the Thomas Common translation, and it totally stinks. Don't waste your time. Unfortunately, there seems to be nothing better out there that I can find so you will have to buy it, or I will see what else is out there in the deep sea of the web.


If a jobs worth doing, its worth doing well.Smile
Just trying to be worth something/sometime
 
jgweed
 
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 09:59 am
@Deckard,
The Kaufmann translation is indeed the most "common" (forgive the pun), and generally the one used in secondary literature (although be warned, quotations are often revised by the writer). It also has the benefit of consistency when quoting other works that have been translated by Kaufmann, to whom the English-speaking philosophical world owes an immense debt.
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 12:39 pm
@jgweed,
all we can do is try it, the fluidity of a forum like this may be a blessing or a curse to this experiment
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 04:18 pm
@Deckard,
If anyone is interested, I found a pdf of a recent Cambridge University Press publication of Thus Spoke Zarathustra, which is one of the two most recent good translations I have seen and I forget who did it off the top of my head. I will send anyone a copy of the pdf by email if you private message me and give me an email address to send it to. I have scanned over a couple of chapters, and from what I have seen, anyone using the Kaufmann, Hollingdale, or Martin translations would be able to relate, and it may be the next version I read (the only other major one I have yet to read is Hollingdale). It seems to be very similar to the Clancy Martin translation for Barnes and Noble.
 
jgweed
 
Reply Sun 27 Dec, 2009 05:18 pm
@Deckard,
Those not having a copy of the preferred translation by the time the discussion starts can, of course, consult Common's which is all over the web, rather than rely solely on the quotations of superior editions that will appear in the discussion. As the latter citations will most likely center upon the really important philosophical portions of the text, they can serve as corrections to Common's translation of the same passage.

[Unfortunately, the Nietzsche Channel, which used (as I remember) the Cowen translation with emendations from Kaufmann's translation, was forced to leave Geocities, and is rebuilding itself elsewhere; at present, the new site does not contain any translations or the German originals, just information on Nietzsche's personal library]

Hollingsdale's translation does not differ radically from Kaufmann's and their interpretations of N's philosophy have much in common; in fact, the two collaborated on translations of some of N's other writings].
 
 

 
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