Reply
Sun 9 Aug, 2009 05:24 am
Perhaps god is a duality 1(evil) below dominance of death in nature
Life is sustained by death (evil god)
The main piece of evidence here is biological matter and the food chain. All life dies biological life decays, erodes, fades, and becomes diseased and ill if it does not sustain itself. To sustain itself nearly all life, except the least living elements of life, kills and eats other life. If not this, then it consumes biological matter at the expense of other living beings; the fight for food is also a case of living beings being required to outdo each other merely to survive.
If life was created, and not simply the result of undirected unconscious evolution , this is surely the worst possible way to have created life. It appears very much that life cannot survive without causing suffering for other life.
A god could not have created a more vicious cycle if it tried: tying the very existence of life with the necessary killing of other life is the work of an evil genius, not of an all-powerful and all-loving god, that could choose if it wanted to sustain all life immediately and forever with manna from heaven. However, it seems such an all-powerful good god does not exist
"A god could not have created a more vicious cycle if it tried: tying the very existence of life with the necessary killing of other life is the work of an evil genius, not of an all-powerful and all-loving god "(maybe?)
Or
Alternatively, god created evil and suffering for a purpose we cannot comprehend.
On the other hand, evil comes from the creation (us) and not the creator. .I can't buy this as it makes god out as a imperfect fallible creator
On the other hand, there could be two fundamental gods. A Evil dark god hating vengeful unforgiving author of death
And a good God of goodness, mercy, forgiveness light hope and infinite love (strangely have written a short story based on just this very concept, Is this just a hope for fallacy If this is the case there must be an eternal battle going on in existence
Or does God not exist or is he just inscrutable??
If I were God I would not have created a world where we not have to kill another life to continue living, why not create beings like walking solar panels absorbing energy directly from the sun without ever having to hurt another life form plant or animal???
If I a little puny mortal can come up with such a solution why cant an infinite god come up with something like my suggestion
Regards
Alan
@Alan McDougall,
Alan, I see you are making strides and it's good to see you exploring and questioning. Although I really don't understand why you feel the need to add in an ingredient to the mixture that is already fine without it. Why does there need to be a god or creator or motivator behind the working of the universe?
Life is just that, a transference of energy. Biological systems operate on the system of operate and replenish. You can't have a system that functions without input or in other words free energy. Therefore the agent has to be derived from another source and that tends to be in the form of another living agent, not always but more than likely. There are a few exceptions but they tend to be microscopic simple organisms that can convert non organic matter into usable sources of energy. The more complex the organism the less capable this process is. It comes down to chemistry really. To put it another way, it is much more efficient to break down the elements that can be used rather than build them from scattered sources.
So why do you keep inviting the invisible friend and awarding it the maker hat?
@Alan McDougall,
Maybe God isn't flawless, maybe he accidently created the evil mankind(hmm, well at least the a bit rude mankind). But I don't find that very likely. It might be a balance between the good and the evil, or maybe God just thought: no pain, no game. If we should have at least some free will, we should be able to choose evil. We can live without being evil, if you think that it's okey to punish animals. (Destroying the enviroment, and killing animals and so on.)
@Krumple,
Krumple;82062 wrote:Alan, I see you are making strides and it's good to see you exploring and questioning. Although I really don't understand why you feel the need to add in an ingredient to the mixture that is already fine without it. Why does there need to be a god or creator or motivator behind the working of the universe?
Life is just that, a transference of energy. Biological systems operate on the system of operate and replenish. You can't have a system that functions without input or in other words free energy. Therefore the agent has to be derived from another source and that tends to be in the form of another living agent, not always but more than likely. There are a few exceptions but they tend to be microscopic simple organisms that can convert non organic matter into usable sources of energy. The more complex the organism the less capable this process is. It comes down to chemistry really. To put it another way, it is much more efficient to break down the elements that can be used rather than build them from scattered sources.
So why do you keep inviting the invisible friend and awarding it the maker hat?
Noted!! but countless millions believe in this sometimes not so friendly invisible friend?
Discounting God even evolution could have evolved a better way to sustain life, I simple do not like this eat or eat scenario we see all around us
I am no bunny or tree hugger, but a visit to an abattoir will bring over my point graphically and most likely turn you and I into an instant vegetarian
I have not visted an abattoir because I like meat and am an admitted hypocrite in this area
@Alan McDougall,
hi alan-
i always used to wonder about those things-like if there is a purpose for everything, why would god make mosquitoes? even if people want to believe god made good and evil because we needed something to exercise our free will on, that doesnt mean lions have to kill wildabeast...(i am a bunny lover, chipmunks, frogs, cats-even though they eat my chipmunks sometimes).
i guess some people believe that animals dont feel anything, they have no 'soul' so they dont matter. i am a vegetarian, but like someone said, (i think alan watts or ram dass, someone like that) we think it's ok to eat vegetables because we dont hear them scream. and science has proved they can sense a threat of physical harm.
if you want to believe in a god, you have to let him do as he pleases i guess.
@Alan McDougall,
Quote:if you want to believe in a god, you have to let him do as he pleases i guess.
seriously?
yeah i had to put that on a line all by itself because, couldn't you just say that life is the way it is and toss out the whole god idea and are you really any worse off? With a statement like that it basically says, anything can happen and yeah that's the way god intended. It's nothing different then saying, well green, is green because it is green. You can't define something using itself as the defining measurement.
@salima,
Alan McDougall;82069 wrote:
Discounting God even evolution could have evolved a better way to sustain life, I simple do not like this eat or eat scenario we see all around us
Evolution makes some individuals better than other, and those individuals have to kill others to survive. Evolution is adapting in the struggle for life. I don't see how it would be possible to sustain life without the eat or be eaten scenario. Then all creatures would have to know that killing is wrong. And honestly, I don't know if I think it's wrong to kill an animal.
salima;82074 wrote:hi alan-
i always used to wonder about those things-like if there is a purpose for everything, why would god make mosquitoes?
And tonails :eek:But without mosquitoes, what would the swallow eat?
salima;82074 wrote:
we think it's ok to eat vegetables because we dont hear them scream. and science has proved they can sense a threat of physical harm.
I would love to see that study. All animals can move, at least a part of their lifes. That's how we define "animals". So I guess that it could be a vegatable who had as much soul life as an animal, eventhough I don't find it very likely. Or, most plants probably has the same amount of soul as a jellyfish(or the biggest plankton in the world, as my father call them)
salima;82074 wrote:
if you want to believe in a god, you have to let him do as he pleases i guess.
If you're not questioning your beliefs I don't think you can call it beliving
@Krumple,
Krumple;82075 wrote:seriously?
yeah i had to put that on a line all by itself because, couldn't you just say that life is the way it is and toss out the whole god idea and are you really any worse off? With a statement like that it basically says, anything can happen and yeah that's the way god intended. It's nothing different then saying, well green, is green because it is green. You can't define something using itself as the defining measurement.
you and i know that, krumple-but some people
want to believe in a traditional creator god, so they have to accept everything they cant understand. it makes no sense to ask those questions, does it?
the next step after asking those questions and being unable to accept that answer is "just say that life is the way it is and toss out the whole god idea"...
@Lily,
Lily;82077 wrote:
If you're not questioning your beliefs I don't think you can call it beliving
I couldn't agree more. We could get into all these perhap's and ask whether God's 'test' is perhaps theism all along.
It would be just as valid as the next 'perhaps' and we'd get some shudders among the crowd.
Stumble It!
Tweet This
Bookmark on Delicious
Share on Facebook
Share on MySpace