A Purpose ... An Answer

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Ascendere
 
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 06:08 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;145304 wrote:
It's a good question. Does wisdom always require resources, limited resources?

Wether from above or below, those that can see the world in it's entirety are those that gain wisdom. So no, there have been many wise men and women who had vast resources and attained some degree of wisdom. Haha i do like your inquiries, you are the kind of person that challenges others to validate their points and question everything without necessarily being negative.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 05:45 am
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;145304 wrote:
It's a good question. Does wisdom always require resources, limited resources?

Knowledge as a goal in itself, as the sort of luxury described by Aristotle has always been built up on the unrewarded labor of many... But what of that today...

The best minds in our universities will graduate saddled by debt and be driven to serve the rat race of men who use their leisure only to sequester more leisure to themselves and their class... What good might all those people do if society educated them for free, and pledged them to do good, and find good instead of mbuing them with the belief that only they have bought their educations, and only they deserve the rewards of it...

Our formal educations are the anti ethical... They believe in the individual, and teach the individual while society goes to hell.
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 12:47 pm
@Fido,
Fido;145529 wrote:

[...] The best minds in our universities will graduate saddled by debt and be driven to serve the rat race of men who use their leisure only to sequester more leisure to themselves and their class... [...]


Fido, can you expand on your metaphor a bit? I don't follow how the rat race of men is the leisured class. Are you talking about a leisured class that drives the rat race? Or is it a leisured class that, when it is not at leisure, engages in a rat race?
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 01:51 pm
@AWohlfarth,
While there are many types of Knowledge, Philosophy is the pursuit of the Knowledge of Understanding. Science is the pursuit of the Knowledge of the Universe and Religion is the pursuit of the Knowledge of Creation.

Each serves their purpose and each requires a specific toolset which do not apply uniformly across the entire spectrum of Knowledge.
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 01:53 pm
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;145722 wrote:
While there are many types of Knowledge, Philosophy is the pursuit of the Knowledge of Understanding. Science is the pursuit of the Knowledge of the Universe and Religion is the pursuit of the Knowledge of Creation.

Each serves their purpose and each requires a specific toolset which do not apply uniformly across the entire spectrum of Knowledge.


I disagree. Philosophy concerns knowledge of the whole.
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 02:07 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;145724 wrote:
I disagree. Philosophy concerns knowledge of the whole.


Well, I would then argue that Knowledge of the Whole is a particular aspect of the Knowledge of Understanding.

While Science, the pursuit of the Knowledge of the Universe deals strictly with the physical sphere, and Religion, the pursuit of the Knowledge of Creation, deals strictly with the Intelligent sphere, Philosophy, the pursuit of the Knowledge of Understanding looks to see how these two spheres ebb and flow together.

I might even say that the Knowledge of the Whole is perhaps a result of the pursuit of the Knowledge of Understanding, or philosophy.

However, individuals cannot pursue a knowledge of the Whole directly as those types of things are only gifts to those who follow a path to the knowledge of Understanding
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 02:13 pm
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;145729 wrote:
Well, I would then argue that Knowledge of the Whole is a particular aspect of the Knowledge of Understanding.

While Science, the pursuit of the Knowledge of the Universe deals strictly with the physical sphere, and Religion, the pursuit of the Knowledge of Creation, deals strictly with the Intelligent sphere, Philosophy, the pursuit of the Knowledge of Understanding looks to see how these two spheres ebb and flow together.

I might even say that the Knowledge of the Whole is perhaps a result of the pursuit of the Knowledge of Understanding, or philosophy.

However, individuals cannot pursue a knowledge of the Whole directly as those types of things are only gifts to those who follow a path to the knowledge of Understanding


But philosophy can concern itself with physics and theology, right?
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 02:22 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;145735 wrote:
But philosophy can concern itself with physics and theology, right?


Not true philosophy, not how the ancients intended it and for the purpose it serves. Granted, philosophical models have been created for a whole host of subjects but they are not in themselves philosophy. The true purpose of philosophy is to understand any other goal is a corruption.
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 02:28 pm
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;145743 wrote:
Not true philosophy, not how the ancients intended it and for the purpose it serves. Granted, philosophical models have been created for a whole host of subjects but they are not in themselves philosophy. The true purpose of philosophy is to understand any other goal is a corruption.


There clearly have been many corruptions. But I'm not sure that the ancients didn't include physics and theology in their efforts.

To borrow from religion, is faith without works enough? In the case of philosophy, is understanding without [what?] enough?
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 02:38 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;145747 wrote:
There clearly have been many corruptions. But I'm not sure that the ancients didn't include physics and theology in their efforts.

To borrow from religion, is faith without works enough? In the case of philosophy, is understanding without [what?] enough?



For sure, physics and theology spur a deeper knowledge of understanding, and can be quite useful tools, but the knowledge gleaned from these other disciplines needs to be cleaned and separated from their respective environments before they can be applied the the philosophers pursuit of the knowledge of understanding.

Alchemy is a great example of the corruption of philosophy by science. Magic is a great example of the corruption of philosophy by religion.

Both magic and alchemy contain a great many insights into the individuals quest for the Knowledge of Understanding but first they must be cleaned of their taint.
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 03:28 pm
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;145753 wrote:
For sure, physics and theology spur a deeper knowledge of understanding, and can be quite useful tools, but the knowledge gleaned from these other disciplines needs to be cleaned and separated from their respective environments before they can be applied the the philosophers pursuit of the knowledge of understanding.

Alchemy is a great example of the corruption of philosophy by science. Magic is a great example of the corruption of philosophy by religion.

Both magic and alchemy contain a great many insights into the individuals quest for the Knowledge of Understanding but first they must be cleaned of their taint.


I wonder, though, if it's not best to try and cleanse these things within their respective environments, so they can be known for what they are.
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 04:14 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;145783 wrote:
I wonder, though, if it's not best to try and cleanse these things within their respective environments, so they can be known for what they are.



Well sure, that is exactly why we have Science and Religion. to offer the knowledge gleaned from the physical and intelligent spheres their own forums for analysis and contemplation. so that stripped and clean they may offer you insight towards the individual pursuit of knowledge of understanding
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 04:57 pm
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;145808 wrote:
Well sure, that is exactly why we have Science and Religion. to offer the knowledge gleaned from the physical and intelligent spheres their own forums for analysis and contemplation. so that stripped and clean they may offer you insight towards the individual pursuit of knowledge of understanding


Oh, I was thinking that philosophy would do the cleansing and stripping within the spheres of science and religion. My sense, you see, is that philosophy travels.
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 05:15 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;145691 wrote:
Fido, can you expand on your metaphor a bit? I don't follow how the rat race of men is the leisured class. Are you talking about a leisured class that drives the rat race? Or is it a leisured class that, when it is not at leisure, engages in a rat race?


I used to make the drive from Lansing to Detroit every morning, and back West in the afternoon, and I think on ever road I have ever taken to work there is a hill where when you get to the top you can see a river of cars stretched out for as far as the eye can see... There are two kinds of rats... There are the sort that run the race, and the rat kings who benefit, and with their greed cause the race to be run... The rats are lonely individuals, singing along, or going for broke, sometimes putting on make up at 80 miles per our.. Everyone is late, and the rest only drive like they are...Its an ugly scene, make up and all, and I have seen it, often in sillouete behind a blazing sun
But the rat kings are worse...They suffer no moral doubts, and no lonliness...Their cooperation is a given: Go together to eat together...If they could lower wages to such an extent that they could force people to bear debt for the price of their daily bread they would do so...They are not individuals...The cooperation the mere rats find so impossible as individuals no Rat King...Join hands, and make a stand against the rats is their motto... And it shall always be so...
So debt for eduction is just a small part of it...If you can force wages lower, as they do across the board, you can suck all the money and wealth out of a society...It does not work, because when the people are broke so is the government...And that leads to revolution, but until that time everything is revolting...

---------- Post added 03-29-2010 at 07:20 PM ----------

PappasNick;145839 wrote:
Oh, I was thinking that philosophy would do the cleansing and stripping within the spheres of science and religion. My sense, you see, is that philosophy travels.

Philosophy time travels...To learn philosophy one must learn everything in general, and to understand the history of philosopy one must understand history...And just for a little excercis, trying doing anything the old way, because when you understand the want of technology you understand the skill of social organization, which was their technology, but is our Achillies heel...
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 07:01 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;145839 wrote:
Oh, I was thinking that philosophy would do the cleansing and stripping within the spheres of science and religion. My sense, you see, is that philosophy travels.


The cleansing comes from conscious contemplation. Philosophy is just one way of applying that contemplation.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:17 pm
@AWohlfarth,
AWohlfarth;36985 wrote:
A small trip back into history to explain, Confucius, a single man who made an enormous impact on human existence. His touch began such as a small stone thrown into a pond that creates a ripple which travels throughout the whole, so in this same way did his small touch ripple throughout history and create an enormous impact on all of the East and human existence.

Similarly in the West did Socrates ideals of upholding truth make an impact on everyone that he met. In the end he gave his life for his ideals. This sacrifice of his and what he accomplished exists strongly today; it has helped shape and free the entire West from the clutches of the old mindset.



The purpose of PhyloSophy... I love Sophia & Her Wisdom. I also love Hermes & His Knowledge. I think them a nice Match, a Match made in Heaven.

The art of Thought is done by the inspiring Muzes.

Pepijn Sweep
lector
u/d Ox
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 11:37 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;145922 wrote:
The purpose of PhyloSophy... I love Sophia & Her Wisdom. I also love Hermes & His Knowledge. I think them a nice Match, a Match made in Heaven.

The art of Thought is done by the inspiring Muzes.



Well thank you my friend
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2010 12:51 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;145922 wrote:
The purpose of PhyloSophy... I love Sophia & Her Wisdom. I also love Hermes & His Knowledge. I think them a nice Match, a Match made in Heaven.

The art of Thought is done by the inspiring Muzes.

Pepijn Sweep
:lol:Ox

y&IJ

I think Humanity is Infant of US All
 
Wisdom Seeker
 
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2010 02:08 am
@AWohlfarth,
i think philosophy gives life a greater and valuable use.
 
north
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 07:09 pm
@Wisdom Seeker,
Wisdom Seeker;152678 wrote:
i think philosophy gives life a greater and valuable use.


for Humanity and all living beings on this planet , Earth
 
 

 
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