Philosophy as Crucial Fiction

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Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 01:10 am
Philosophy is fiction that tries to pass itself as nonfiction. For an example reread that last sentence. Philosophy is fiction? Says who? But that's just a metaphor, right?

All our hopes are tropes. Homer will tell you a Greek story. A philosopher will tell you the universal story. His story is true for all. Because he says it is and we want to believe him. He dreams of awakening mankind. He hopes to convince us that we can transcend hope and fear. Or he hopes to help us transcend these hopes we have to transcend all the time.

He will tell us a story that gives us certainty, a warm gooey feeling. Or He wants to make us certain that certainty is not so important after all. Sometimes he tells us about the greatness of our tribe, that our tribe must conquer/liberate the world. Other times he tells us that our tribe is just the worst, that we must learn to hate our tribe, in order to purify it.

Remember, all these stories are true (crosses his chest). I'm definitely not a poet or a dreamer! If I use metaphors they just for the imbeciles who need light like the rest. (Don't tell him that his polished abstractions are metaphors, that philosophy is impossible without figurative language. Don't tell him that thought is impossible without figurative language.)
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 06:56 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;125649 wrote:
Philosophy is fiction that tries to pass itself as nonfiction. For an example reread that last sentence. Philosophy is fiction? Says who? But that's just a metaphor, right?



Yes, if "philosophy is a fiction" were an example of philosophy, then philosophy would be a fiction. But "philosophy is a fiction" is not (I hope!) an example of philosophy. So, philosophy is not a fiction. QED
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 01:02 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;125649 wrote:
(Don't tell him that his polished abstractions are metaphors, that philosophy is impossible without figurative language. Don't tell him that thought is impossible without figurative language.)


Philosophy and thought are impossible without figurative language, indeed. But is the philosopher always the person introducing the figurative language, or does he work with what he finds?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 03:43 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;125787 wrote:
Philosophy and thought are impossible without figurative language, indeed. But is the philosopher always the person introducing the figurative language, or does he work with what he finds?


In my opinion, we cannot help but start with what is already there. We are born/thrown into a language. As far as I can tell, a philosophers novelty can consist of either new tropes or an unexpected emphasis. I think Heidegger offered both. Sometimes a foolosopher doesn't have to reinvent the miniskirt but only wear it to church. Perhaps its strange to compare philosophers and fashion, for philosophy is "man's work" and the opposite of frivolous, right? Or are philosophers pretty ladies whose dresses are sown with pens?

The social wants to look good at the right party. Choose a party (Vogue or "the discourse of philosophy") and dress/write accordingly. Musicians, painters, designers, philosophers : how can they not create with the past in mind? They can decide to "start from zero" but only belatedness would dream of such a mission.
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 08:33 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;125852 wrote:
They can decide to "start from zero" but only belatedness would dream of such a mission.


I'm not following what you mean by belatedness. Is that a technical term of which I'm not aware?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 10:57 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;126131 wrote:
I'm not following what you mean by belatedness. Is that a technical term of which I'm not aware?



An example of what I mean by belatedness is a rock musician who feels that most or all of the great riffs have been used/claimed. A philosopher-type might be intimidated by all that the tradition already includes.

I would say belatedness is the twin sibling of the "anxiety of influence." For those whose ambition it is to create something both novel and potent, these issues are real. For others they are possibly meaningless or silly.
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 02:00 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;126304 wrote:
An example of what I mean by belatedness is a rock musician who feels that most or all of the great riffs have been used/claimed. A philosopher-type might be intimidated by all that the tradition already includes.

I would say belatedness is the twin sibling of the "anxiety of influence." For those whose ambition it is to create something both novel and potent, these issues are real. For others they are possibly meaningless or silly.


Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I think the example of riffs is nice. Maybe philosophy is more like jazz. But certainly too much of the music metaphor is misleading.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2010 02:53 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;126502 wrote:
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I think the example of riffs is nice. Maybe philosophy is more like jazz. But certainly too much of the music metaphor is misleading.


I agree. Too much of the music metaphor is indeed misleading. I offer the music metaphor as a counterbalance to the dominant visual metaphor.

The assumption that the truth should be clear and distinct rather than harmonious seems to separate thinking and feeling, which in my eyes/text (and ears/heart) is a living unity.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2010 01:17 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;125649 wrote:
Philosophy is fiction that tries to pass itself as nonfiction. For an example reread that last sentence. Philosophy is fiction? Says who? But that's just a metaphor, right?

All our hopes are tropes. Homer will tell you a Greek story. A philosopher will tell you the universal story. His story is true for all. Because he says it is and we want to believe him. He dreams of awakening mankind. He hopes to convince us that we can transcend hope and fear. Or he hopes to help us transcend these hopes we have to transcend all the time.

He will tell us a story that gives us certainty, a warm gooey feeling. Or He wants to make us certain that certainty is not so important after all. Sometimes he tells us about the greatness of our tribe, that our tribe must conquer/liberate the world. Other times he tells us that our tribe is just the worst, that we must learn to hate our tribe, in order to purify it.

Remember, all these stories are true (crosses his chest). I'm definitely not a poet or a dreamer! If I use metaphors they just for the imbeciles who need light like the rest. (Don't tell him that his polished abstractions are metaphors, that philosophy is impossible without figurative language. Don't tell him that thought is impossible without figurative language.)
Oo seems like blindfolded chainsaw surgery. I find huge difference in what a child can manufacture of thoughts, what a naive ignorent person can make up, and what a highly educated can.

Not all are philosophers with a baseknowledge of superstition and roumers. Do you even know the concept of double blind test?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2010 01:27 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;127385 wrote:
I find huge difference in what a child can manufacture of thoughts, what a naive ignorent person can make up, and what a highly educated can.

Me too. Congratulations.

---------- Post added 02-12-2010 at 02:28 AM ----------

HexHammer;127385 wrote:

Not all are philosophers with a baseknowledge of superstition and roumers. Do you even know the concept of double blind test?

If you plan on attacking my intelligence, use a spellchecker. It'll sting more.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2010 02:18 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;127388 wrote:
If you plan on attacking my intelligence, use a spellchecker. It'll sting more.
What I'm searching for is your handling of principles and I can't see what your principles has to do with my spelling or lack hereof.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Mon 15 Feb, 2010 12:27 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;127409 wrote:
What I'm searching for is your handling of principles and I can't see what your principles has to do with my spelling or lack hereof.


It's my view that a certain amount of exhibitionism motivates posting on forums in the first place. Myself included. It's also fun to indulge one's "power drive" and do some judo on the sentences of others. I was actually doing you a favor, I think. Consistently bad spelling is not the way to gain the respect that I think all of us can't help but want, no matter our protestations to the contrary.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2010 11:06 am
@Reconstructo,
[QUOTE

If you plan on attacking me on my intelligence; use a spellchecker. I'll sting more.[/QUOTE]

No-one was saying you have a lack of intelligence.:nonooo:
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2010 02:13 pm
@Reconstructo,
Crucial fiction. Lies to live by. Not lies for those who currently live by them, but lies to the future that will revise them. And these revisions are lies to a future beyond that future. Unless we all decide the game is up, the truth found.
 
 

 
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