What is Philosophy?

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Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 12:12 pm
This is a question that's been asked me in terms of my academic study, in talking to others, and in posting on this forum. It's a question I feel called to answer, given that it's come up repeatedly especially on this forum in my dealings with Theaetetus, RD (You know who you are), Holliday (sp?), Didymos Thomas, and others...and, so far as I can see, it's a question I feel qualified to answer.

I can't help but laugh when people say on this particular forum (as well as in other places) "this isn't philosophy" or "this is philosophy," or "these people are philosophers" or "those people aren't," or "this isn't philosophically relevent." Well...I can't help but laugh when people say this to me. I am a philosophy major in college. I'll be a senior this fall. I've taken plenty of philosophy classes. I should know what is philosophy and what is not, what is philosophically relevent and what is not, etc.

In case you are wondering, this is what I've taken so far:

Freshman level Intro to Philosophy
Freshman level Intro to Logic
Sophomore level Symbolic Logic
Sophomore level History of Philosophy (Ancients/Mideivals)
Sophomore level History of Philosophy (Moderns)
Sophomore level Ethics
Junior level (German) Existentialism
Junior level Moral Responsibility
Senior level Presocratics
Senior level Philosophy of Law
Senior level Rationalists (Descartes, Spinoza, Leibniz)

Clearly, then, I should know what is philosophy and what is not philosophy. Are we agreed? So we are...and just as Kierkegaard felt obligated to tell the vast majority of "Christians" that they are not, in fact, Christians, I feel obligated to tell the vast majority of people on this forum who think they are doing "philosophy" that you, in fact, are not doing philosophy...but you could be!

What is philosophy? Philosophy is the science whereby we discover the grounds upon which our intuitions, our common sense values/beliefs are based.

"But," you'll say, "of course that's what we're trying to figure out! I have tons of ideas about these things!"

Having beliefs/ideas about these intuitions isn't enough. You could have all the right answers (evne if the right answer is that there are none) about these things, but you could still fail to do philosophy. You could be an avid skeptic (in the sense that you think that there is no truth, or if there is truth, we can't know it), or you could be an avid empiricist (in the sense that you believe all knowledge is based on the senses), and you still wouldn't be a philosopher if that something else is missing.

What is that something else? Reason. Arguments. This is the stuff of philosophy. And how do we know what to reason about and make arguments for? By asking the right questions. How do you know what questions to ask? By studying the history of philosophy. Where's the best place to do that? College! Very Happy

There's absolutely no philosophical merit, it's completely worthless, if you have an opinion about epistemology, but in forming your opinion, you have no idea what is at stake. I'll give you an example:

Let's say you are an avid empiricist, not in that you are doing philosophy in the manner of the empiricists, but rather in the sense that you are mindlessly accepting their beliefs without critically analyzing them. So you believe that we gain knowledge through the senses.

But whoah! It never occurs to you to ask, as Plato would have, this crucial question: "What is knowledge, and whatever faculty knowledge is, are sense particulars its rightful object, or is there some property that all sense particulars have alike which exclude them from being the proper object of this faculty?"

Or again, suppose you have this belief that science is able to answer all of the questions that we can possibly ask, and instead of doing armchair philosophy, we should "naturalize" the science (of philosophy) by referring the various philosophical fields (epistemology, ethics, etc.) to the relevent field of study in the natural science (psychology, biology, chemistry, sociology, &c)...but it never occurs to you to ask this very, very important question: "What is natural science, upon which faculty is it based, and what are its necessary limitations?" Your belief, even if right (and it isn't), is completely worthless to you philosophically.

For one to do philosophy, these things have to be in effect:

1. It must be a problem underlying common sense values. One cannot use philosophy to figure out the human genome.

2. One must understand and be looking to answer the appropriate questions. Philosophy isn't blind. The driving force of philosophy is the paradox. My favorite is Parmenides': "By 'change' I understand the process whereby that which is ceases to be, or whereby that which is not comes into being. But if nothing comes from nothing, and that which is already is, how is change possible?"

Last but not least:

3. Your answers must be guided by an appropriate method, especially the laws of non-contradiction. As the ancient Stoics insisted, "logic is the propaedeutic of philosophy." Even if you know and are trying to answer the right questions, and even if the subject matter is appropriate, if you are not guided by some method whereby your answers are assured, your pursuit isn't philosophical. For this, we must use logic and thought experiments.

So be honest with me, PhilosophyForum: are you really doing philosophy?

Oh! And one last thing...and you know who you are whom I am addressing: Is metal philosophy? No. Heavy metal is art. The better question, though, is this one: is heavy metal philosophically relevent? The answer is an unequivocable "yes." Parmenides wrote in verse. The Stoics and others looked to the poets. In our modern day, we have philosophy of literature, of film, etc. The role of the artist is not to do philosophy. The role of the artist is to reveal the human condition, and to gain insight into our intuitions...and that is philosophically relevent. Not to mention, of course, that heavy metal presents us with harmony and beauty, and puts us in the appropriate mindset for doing philosophy. Where the artist leaves off, the philosopher takes up.
 
richrf
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 01:13 pm
@Bonaventurian,
For me, philosophy is the personal "love of wisdom", that comes from experiencing and exploring life, and anyone is not only welcome to explore and relate to me their views. I have actually picked up remarkable bits of wisdom from street people who happen into my life at the most remarkable times.

[CENTER]This being is a guest house.
Every morning is a new arrival ...

Be grateful for whoever comes,
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.

Rumi

Rich

[/CENTER]
 
Bonaventurian
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 01:14 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Yeah, that's not philosophy. If it's really "wisdom" you have a method to make sure it's wisdom.
 
richrf
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 01:18 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Bonaventurian;68335 wrote:
Yeah, that's not philosophy. If it's really "wisdom" you have a method to make sure it's wisdom.


My method is to welcome new knowledge from wherever it may come. I am here to become more aware, observe, and assimilate. The more I become aware, the more I feel I understand, only to open up to new questions and new awareness. It is a forever process, and I am enjoying it.

I don't filter out knowledge, because what I may think is not widom, may be exactly what I am looking for, and I fear I may miss it. Smile

Rich
 
Bonaventurian
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 01:18 pm
@Bonaventurian,
If you don't have a method, you can't know that it's really "knowledge" that you are taking in. Philosophy 1. is a science and 2. is critical of itself.
 
richrf
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 01:41 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Bonaventurian;68338 wrote:
If you don't have a method, you can't know that it's really "knowledge" that you are taking in. Philosophy 1. is a science and 2. is critical of itself.


For me, the more I know, the more aware I am. I just don't filter my knowledge, as you might. But, I do pick and choose which direction I go. As I have said, I have found valuable knowledge in the most unexpected places. Really affected me. I kind of like the way Rumi puts it, but I can see you are different than me. That's fine. I didn't expect you to be the same.

Rich
 
Bonaventurian
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 01:42 pm
@Bonaventurian,
I'm sorry, but that's not philosophy, and I know what philosophy is, dang it. I am a philosophy student.
 
richrf
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 01:47 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Since you are a student, then no doubt you will be pleased with the idea that you will be wiser than me, because your method is better and I have none. (?). I can live with that.

Rich
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 02:09 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Philosophy is the means of acquiring knowledge outside of science. I would consider it to include math; basically it is any attempt at learning about the Universe without the empirical method. And of course it should be very critical in nature.
 
Bonaventurian
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 02:10 pm
@Bonaventurian,
The difference between philosophy and math is that mathematics isn't critical of itself. Like...Geometers have theorums and whatnot, but they don't question the theorums and postulates and whatnot. They take them as given and just roll with them. Philosophy is above mathematics.
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 02:18 pm
@Bonaventurian,
It's intensely critical ...... you can criticize the validity of axioms as well as theorems based on them.
 
Bonaventurian
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 02:25 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Insofar as you are criticizing the axioms based on consistency with the rest of the mathematical systems, you are engaging in a mathematical pursuit. But insofar as you are critical of the foundations of mathematics (number, for instance), that's a philosophical pursuit, not a mathematical pursuit.

Anyways, it's not my distinction. Plato distinguishes between philosophy and math in the analogy of the cave.
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 02:27 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Bonaventurian;68349 wrote:
Insofar as you are criticizing the axioms based on consistency with the rest of the mathematical systems, you are engaging in a mathematical pursuit. But insofar as you are critical of the foundations of mathematics (number, for instance), that's a philosophical pursuit, not a mathematical pursuit.

Anyways, it's not my distinction. Plato distinguishes between philosophy and math in the analogy of the cave.


Can you link me?
 
RDanneskjld
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 02:31 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Philosophy is purely analytic it cannot offer us any new knowledge of the world, though it can help us analyse concepts and language. But it doesnt offer us any new knowledge of the world, it is wrong to see Philosophy as a kind of science or akin to science. And Philosophy is not limited to thought experiments and logic, empirical data can be used (the growing group of Philosopher's who are taking an interest in Moral Psychology) and also Philosopher's have been crucial in the development of the cognitive science with Philosopher's playing an important role in the path and growth of Cognitive science. (Jerry Fodor, John Searle, Ned Block just to name a few)
 
Bonaventurian
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 02:32 pm
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;68350 wrote:
Can you link me?


Plato's Cave

Plato considers mathematical objects, though intelligible and conceptual, as lower than the Forms.
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 11:29 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Bonaventurian;68352 wrote:
Plato's Cave

Plato considers mathematical objects, though intelligible and conceptual, as lower than the Forms.


@@

why did I not know this?
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 11:59 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Bonaventurian wrote:
The difference between philosophy and math is that mathematics isn't critical of itself. Like...Geometers have theorums and whatnot, but they don't question the theorums and postulates and whatnot. They take them as given and just roll with them. Philosophy is above mathematics.


Then surely, as philosophers, we should be critical of the method you've defined with which philosophy must abide.

I would agree that a good portion of this forum has nothing to do with formal philosophy. And by "formal", I mean there are no set guidelines or methods by which people should respond. This, however, does not mean this forum isn't worthwhile. On the contrary, this forum, to me, is a beautiful place. One should not limit themselves to formality and method when seeking knowledge, in my opinion.

Let me be clear that I understand where you're coming from as a philosophy student. You've been taught of the methods and ways of argumentation, and anything that deviates from this is not deemed philosophy. That's fine, and I'm sure many ardent philosophers would agree. On this note, I had an earlier suggestion we call this forum "Critical Thinking" forum, because I believe that is the commonality between all of the threads. Even if we aren't engaging in formal philosophy, most at least are critically thinking their positions, the subject at hand, others' positions, etc. People here seek to be enlightened, to gain new perspective, and this is the beauty I was referring to.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 12:42 am
@Bonaventurian,
I am a senior in philosophy and I also study ancient Greek. I am more than apt at being able to pick out a hack. All of your philosophy relies upon archaic (read, obsolete) arguments, and ridiculously idealistic stances that have no basis in what can be observed from the real world.

Remember, just because you think that you are wiser than another person, means that you are insecure about your standing within groups of people.

---------- Post added at 01:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 AM ----------

By the way, as soon as you said that philosophy was a science, Bonaventurian, I quit reading. At that point your entire argument that followed was necessarily constructed on poor premises.

Bonaventurian;68335 wrote:
Yeah, that's not philosophy. If it's really "wisdom" you have a method to make sure it's wisdom.


no. no. no. no. no. no. no. and no. Your are stuck in your own shell of a world, which is derived from Western doctrine. Your "philosophy" already is flawed because you are shutting of other powers of the mind that have the capability of finding wisdom.
 
Bonaventurian
 
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 11:03 am
@Bonaventurian,
The., you say "archaic," but I think that the greatest error in modern "philosophy" is thinking that it is, in fact, modern. Rabid empiricism has been around since Heraclitus.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Fri 12 Jun, 2009 06:48 pm
@Bonaventurian,
Bonaventurian;68312 wrote:
Clearly, then, I should know what is philosophy and what is not philosophy. Are we agreed?
I had an art professor once who posed the question "what is art?" The consensus was that it's an unanswerable question. There isn't one measure. Yet you'd think a professor of the subject would be able to answer the "is" and "is not" question.

You may know what the canon of Western philosophy is, but that doesn't make you Socrates. As Darth Vader said, "You are not a Jedi yet." Try lowering the peacock feathers.

Certainly philosophy is a process and not a thing -- and I've heard more wisdom come from taxi drivers in Africa than I've heard from American undergraduates who think they're the shizzle just because they've gotten a few credits under their belt.

---------- Post added at 09:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------

Bonaventurian;68578 wrote:
I think that the greatest error in modern "philosophy" is thinking that it is, in fact, modern. Rabid empiricism has been around since Heraclitus.
If you equate modern philosophers with "rabid empiricists", then you haven't gotten to the vast majority of modern philosophers. How is Wittgenstein, one who protested the statement "There is no hippopotamus in this room", a rabid empiricist?? What about Sartre, Heidegger, Camus, Lyotard, Derrida, Levi-Strauss... which one of them is a rabid empiricist??

You'd think that a sufficient background in academic philosophy would at least prevent you from generalizing about crap you've never studied.
 
 

 
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