Chess, Shogi, Etc. as ART.

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Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2010 02:01 pm
Any one here see games like Chess, etc. as sculptures? I've been designing a game lately, and the decisions as aesthetic. Anyone else design their own games? Or modify current games? Invent variants?

I was studying geometry and math. This reminded me of chess, which a system with strict rules. I bumped into Shogi, where the pieces promote and also "parachute." It's as if the set of pieces constitute a complicated machine, which is also a strict causal network. Including the choice element. In games devoid of chance, I mean. And games like Risk with some chance, are causal enough, as probability is logical/mathematical..

Even monopoly...Because 7 is more likely roll than 11. So maybe you will but that little red hotel. What's beautiful about games is that they are logical, and completely human, as they are products of humans. As Vico said, man cannot understand completely nature, which is "god's" creation, but he can understand culture, which is his own creation. "Nothing human is alien to me..."
 
TuringEquivalent
 
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2010 02:12 pm
@Reconstructo,
Chess is fun, and you get to learn crazy names like dragon, nimzo indian, gambit etc.

ops, i think i throw a gambit today.
 
mister kitten
 
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2010 02:15 pm
@Reconstructo,
Tic-tac-toe can be rearranged in many ways such as: requirements for winning, structure of board, types of markers (the same or different for each player), etc.
The same can be done with any other game.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Thu 25 Mar, 2010 02:28 pm
@mister kitten,
Stategy is sculputured thought, so yes.

I used to covet a sertain chess board from a fantasy art sculpturer.
You can even get a Simpsons board.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 10:10 pm
@Reconstructo,
I've burnt myself out the subject, but since my last post I have finished several games. Designing them, I mean. I started with 2 dimensions, touched on 3, peaked at 11, and then reduced it all to one. I would carry my piece concepts from higher to lower dimensions. One of my favorite pieces was the mirror piece, which could move and capture according to the threats it was exposed to. It's power increased with its danger. As far as traditional movement is concerned, the essentially dichotomy is turning-radius versus speed. It is indeed an art of discrete dynamic form. Smile
 
mister kitten
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 02:27 pm
@Reconstructo,
I'm an addict for games. Any way we can play?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 09:30 pm
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;148618 wrote:
I'm an addict for games. Any way we can play?


One of the best concepts I had, as far as I can judge, included a game where the pieces could stack to evolve. And they could, metaphorically speaking, unstack, to devolve. In Chess terms, a white pawn could "capture" or stack itself on another white pawn to form a white knight. And at any time, the knight could split back into two pawns, just as if one moved off the other, in the usual pawnish style. It should be noted that this game included non-chess pieces. Some versions (Interpenetration) did not allow backward or even sideways movement.

But this morph game would be best handled by a computer interface. No clumsy fumbling with pieces would be necessary and the game could be played therefore at high speed. It was philosophically satisfying. A person's king was nothing but the system of his morphological pieces considered as a unity, as a system.

If I were an up-to-date programmer, I could make this interface myself. But my knowledge is way out of date. I designed the games using Paint. I suppose a person could play a slow game that way. Or by a system of notation. Actually, that wouldn't be too hard. I've been getting sick of lightning Chess anyway. It's all necessarily sloppy.

I need to get my ideas online somewhere, and if one seems more playable than the others, we could play a low-speed game. Might be fun with the mirror piece and the prime. The prime is a knight that cannot capture/destroy an enemy without jumping on and destroying a friendly piece first, and then "knight-jumping" from there onto an enemy. Designing pieces reminds me of defining functions. Of course that's really exactly what it is. The pieces are functions in a discrete spatial system.

The 11 dimensional game is only 11 dimensional here and there, else it would boggle the mind entirely.
 
harlequin phil
 
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 07:42 pm
@Reconstructo,
chess comes down to pattern recognition. when you get a certain pawn structure, when the pieces are in certain positions, you then know what move to make, etc. in this way, i see chess as art, and in this way, i try to make my games beautiful. i well played game is beauty, certain positions are beautiful (to chess players). after a while, you get so used to certain positions, you can tell when you've made a bad move, or when things go wrong, because the position is ugly.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 07:44 pm
@harlequin phil,
harlequin;166705 wrote:
chess comes down to pattern recognition. when you get a certain pawn structure, when the pieces are in certain positions, you then know what move to make, etc. in this way, i see chess as art, and in this way, i try to make my games beautiful. i well played game is beauty, certain positions are beautiful (to chess players). after a while, you get so used to certain positions, you can tell when you've made a bad move, or when things go wrong, because the position is ugly.


THanks. Good point. And not only are the positions beautiful, the structure of the game is beautiful. The knight is the shadow of the queen, for instance. The 8 by 8 grid is a nice choice. At some point, I didn't even like to play chess all that much but still loved what it was...which is an abstract system of mathematical precision. It really is a form of mathematics in its way. And mathematicians have used it many times. Smile
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 07:55 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;143695 wrote:
Any one here see games like Chess, etc. as sculptures? I've been designing a game lately, and the decisions as aesthetic. Anyone else design their own games? Or modify current games? Invent variants?

I was studying geometry and math. This reminded me of chess, which a system with strict rules. I bumped into Shogi, where the pieces promote and also "parachute." It's as if the set of pieces constitute a complicated machine, which is also a strict causal network. Including the choice element. In games devoid of chance, I mean. And games like Risk with some chance, are causal enough, as probability is logical/mathematical..

Even monopoly...Because 7 is more likely roll than 11. So maybe you will but that little red hotel. What's beautiful about games is that they are logical, and completely human, as they are products of humans. As Vico said, man cannot understand completely nature, which is "god's" creation, but he can understand culture, which is his own creation. "Nothing human is alien to me..."


I'd be interested in what new variants of games you've created with a finer aesthetic appeal. That sounds interesting. Do you have any pictures, diagrams, or anything? Or haven't you actually created anything yet?
 
Deckard
 
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 08:54 pm
@Zetherin,
Here's a vague idea for a game:

The Greeks had very strict rules on what was allowed when performing geometric proofs. The only pieces allowed were the compass and the straight edge.

I wonder if a two player game could be developed out of this Greek tradition in which each player has a compass and a straightedge. For example with each turn a player can draw an arc or a straight line. I can't figure out what the object of the game would be yet but I like the idea.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 09:29 pm
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;166707 wrote:
I'd be interested in what new variants of games you've created with a finer aesthetic appeal. That sounds interesting. Do you have any pictures, diagrams, or anything? Or haven't you actually created anything yet?


In the creative writing section I posted a batch of various ideas. I do have some picture files but not online. The pictures aren't that important really. I did have some nice symbols for a two dimensional representational of certain pieces. I was thinking from the beginning of online versions of these games. For a week or two I was obsessed. I couldn't shut them off or think of anything else. Then I was burnt out. And got into math proper. But I would love to know that some of these ideas were appreciated, as I was/am quite fond of them. Smile
 
lazymon
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 12:52 pm
@Zetherin,
Polynomial (game) - main page for preview release and demo.

I like the special effects in this space shooter, very trippy.
 
 

 
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