Are Humans Free?

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kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 28 Jun, 2009 08:24 pm
@Elmud,
xcvcx;68921 wrote:
I have an essay that needs to be written on are humans free or are our lives determined for us? We need to use 3 of these units in the essay along with a few philosophers. (Logic, epistemology, metaphysics, ethics and social/political philosophy) to support our arguments. I'm thinking of going for "humans are free" but there is so much information I have no idea where to start. I spent an hour reading topics and posts but I don't know what to use. We can't use our own opinions unless we have a philosopher to back us up or we have some information from the units.

Would anyone be able to direct me towards some information related to say ethics and free will? Maybe 3 arguments that could be used because I am at a complete loss here.

Thanks in advance

John

Daniel Dennett's, Elbow Room
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2009 01:45 am
@xcvcx,
We are not free, we have to breath, eat and drink to survive. Read Maslows Hierachy of needs
We are only free when you remove the word NEED

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.svg/400px-Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.svg.png http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png
An interpretation of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, represented as a pyramid with the more basic needs at the bottom.[1]
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2009 07:44 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;73293 wrote:
We are not free, we have to breath, eat and drink to survive. Read Maslows Hierachy of needs
We are only free when you remove the word NEED

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.svg/400px-Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.svg.png http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png
An interpretation of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, represented as a pyramid with the more basic needs at the bottom.[1]



Where are the grains, and the fruits and vegetables? Or is that the wrong pyramid?
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 07:10 pm
@xcvcx,
The major problem with Maslow's hierarchy of needs is the fact that the acceptance of facts is at the top. That is ridiculous to say the least.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Fri 3 Jul, 2009 07:58 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;74673 wrote:
The major problem with Maslow's hierarchy of needs is the fact that the acceptance of facts is at the top. That is ridiculous to say the least.


Maralows need hierarchy is not set in stone. For instance some artist fervent needs are so driven by the urge to create that need to eat or drink is sublimated to the degree of starvation or failure of bodilly fuyions

I agree that triangle should be the other way around, with the basic needs like breath, eat drink at the top and only when those prime needs are satisfied do the other needs take over
 
manlyhallstudent
 
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2009 04:33 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;68998 wrote:
When I chose chocolate ice-cream, the other day, I was free to choose butterscotch, and a number of other flavors. I just did not. But I could have. Nothing compelled me to choose chocolate.

Something compelled you to choose icecream Very Happy
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2009 01:05 pm
@manlyhallstudent,
manlyhallstudent;84891 wrote:
Something compelled you to choose icecream Very Happy

Why do you think that? You weren't even there! Why would anyone do that, anyway?
 
manlyhallstudent
 
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2009 02:00 pm
@kennethamy,
Sorry, why would anyone do what? Compel you to eat icecream?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2009 03:05 pm
@manlyhallstudent,
manlyhallstudent;85001 wrote:
Sorry, why would anyone do what? Compel you to eat icecream?


Yes, of course. My mother would compel me to eat carrots, but never ice-cream. I would not need to be compelled to eat ice-cream!
 
Darkpoet
 
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2009 09:17 pm
@kennethamy,
We humans, in my opinion, and so with the rest of the universe are not free, not at all. We are driven by many things, mostly our need to survive and understand the world around us, but I think there is much more than simple questions that drives us. I believe that a high deity controls our very being, by the use of what we perceive.

So, no, we do not have free will, nor are we "free".
 
Oribe
 
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 11:00 pm
@xcvcx,
It all depends on if you want to go with a subjective or objective take on the word "free". Subjectively there are many freedoms we come across every day, the freedom of choice, specifically. Objectively though, no, we are never free. We are tied down by the responsibilities and necessities that forge our existence. That and the almighty dollar.
 
Grimlock
 
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 06:41 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;74673 wrote:
The major problem with Maslow's hierarchy of needs is the fact that the acceptance of facts is at the top. That is ridiculous to say the least.


Really? And how many people do you know who are truly realistic in their approach to life? One might perhaps better ask whether or not "the acceptance of facts" has any place, at all, in the hierarchy of human need.
 
Joshy phil
 
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 04:08 pm
@Grimlock,
I apologize if I'm just repeating what has already been said, but I'm too lazy to read through the whole rest of the topic.

On one hand, you could easily say that humans are not free, as we are held by the restraints and expectations of society. Therefore, I suppose you could also say that, to an extent, our lives are pre-determined, as we have limited options due to those restraints and expectations.
On the other hand, however, freedom is a concept created by humans, and therefore, it can only sum up that which we can conceive. Would we create a concept that we have no way of achieving?

Some humans may believe that they are free if, for example, their choices and wants fall within the boundaries of society. However, I believe that freedom is simply an illusion, and no human is truly free.
 
gojo1978
 
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 06:08 pm
@William,
xcvcx;68921 wrote:
I have an essay that needs to be written on are humans free or are our lives determined for us? We need to use 3 of these units in the essay along with a few philosophers. (Logic, epistemology, metaphysics, ethics and social/political philosophy) to support our arguments. I'm thinking of going for "humans are free" but there is so much information I have no idea where to start. I spent an hour reading topics and posts but I don't know what to use. We can't use our own opinions unless we have a philosopher to back us up or we have some information from the units.

Would anyone be able to direct me towards some information related to say ethics and free will? Maybe 3 arguments that could be used because I am at a complete loss here.


William;68922 wrote:
Hello John and welcome. IMO, no human will be free as long as he has to reach in his pocket to pay for that freedom.


In my opinion, only those who can afford to reach in their pocket to pay for it are.

If you need to work, by what rationale can you be termed 'free'?
 
peter74
 
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 06:12 pm
@xcvcx,
Humans are free up to the extent that God allows it to be so. As an all loving God, humans must be free, but as an all knowing God, He must know in advance everything there is to know, including our actions and self. So we are not unconditionally free. We are physically free up to an extent ( we can't run 1022 miles per hour ); we are politically free up to an extent ( we can't advocate hate speech ); we are metaphysically free up to an extent ( up to what God allows us to be free)
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 08:02 pm
@peter74,
peter74;88385 wrote:
Humans are free up to the extent that God allows it to be so. As an all loving God, humans must be free, but as an all knowing God, He must know in advance everything there is to know, including our actions and self. So we are not unconditionally free. We are physically free up to an extent ( we can't run 1022 miles per hour ); we are politically free up to an extent ( we can't advocate hate speech ); we are metaphysically free up to an extent ( up to what God allows us to be free)


Where do you get this information? Or is it all conjecture? Otherwise I say god has nothing to do with anything, and instead it is the flying pink elephant that prevents people from running 1022 miles per hour. It is the flying pink elephant that keeps everything as we know it intact and consistent. The flying pink elephant only gives us the sense of freedom but actually forces everything to work a certain way for his own enjoyment. All those who do not accept the flying pink elephant will suffer eternally as fuel for the kettle pot of caramel popcorn.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Sun 6 Sep, 2009 12:54 am
@Darkpoet,
Darkpoet;85065 wrote:
We humans, in my opinion, and so with the rest of the universe are not free, not at all. We are driven by many things, mostly our need to survive and understand the world around us, but I think there is much more than simple questions that drives us. I believe that a high deity controls our very being, by the use of what we perceive.

So, no, we do not have free will, nor are we "free".


Only after we die are we truly free
 
darshanchande
 
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 03:39 am
@xcvcx,
xcvcx;68921 wrote:
I have an essay that needs to be written on are humans free or are our lives determined for us? We need to use 3 of these units in the essay along with a few philosophers. (Logic, epistemology, metaphysics, ethics and social/political philosophy) to support our arguments. I'm thinking of going for "humans are free" but there is so much information I have no idea where to start. I spent an hour reading topics and posts but I don't know what to use. We can't use our own opinions unless we have a philosopher to back us up or we have some information from the units.

Would anyone be able to direct me towards some information related to say ethics and free will? Maybe 3 arguments that could be used because I am at a complete loss here.


Thanks in advance

John


No, humans are not free. Although they are trapped in their own entanglements. Today whatever are the problems of humanity, whatever is stopping humans from being happy is created by human themselves.

The worse part is that if someone else had trapped humans then there was a hope of being free, by fighting or whatever. But now it seems very difficult to be free because it is self imposed misery. It's like a drug addiction. All the worldly activities are the cause of pain, but no human is ready to leave it all.

No human is, thus, free.

---
Darshan Chande | a blog of scientific philosophy and personal development for truth-seekers
 
 

 
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