Is change inevitable?

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prothero
 
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 04:21 pm
@ikurwa89,
ikurwa89;153140 wrote:
What I'm talking about is that nothing in this universe is FIXED.

This universe posses a feature that it has to change regardless.

So if you think change is an inevitable feature of this universe, why do you think so?

If you think otherwise why?

Can you give me example for both cases please.

I'm with change is inevitable from theories such as evolution,plate tectonics and mountain decaying etc.

Thanks:bigsmile:
well I am with the process philosophers.
Process "becoming" change, flux is primary reality.
It is fixed "being" that is an illusion, a concept imposed by mental construct on a reality which is always in flux and changing relationship.
Reality is composed of moments droplets of experience. Perpetual perishing and rebirth.
One moment of experience perishes and a new moment of experience is born incorporating elements and the past and possiblities of the future.
Time, reality is change (process). The universe is composed of events not particles.
 
north
 
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 11:12 pm
@prothero,
prothero;155002 wrote:
well I am with the process philosophers.
Process "becoming" change, flux is primary reality.
It is fixed "being" that is an illusion, a concept imposed by mental construct on a reality which is always in flux and changing relationship.
Reality is composed of moments droplets of experience. Perpetual perishing and rebirth.


true


Quote:
One moment of experience perishes and a new moment of experience is born incorporating elements and the past and possiblities of the future.


true

Quote:
Time, reality is change (process). The universe is composed of events not particles.


yet without the particles , then empty space , upon what is time or change measured ?
 
prothero
 
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2010 11:22 pm
@north,
north;155136 wrote:
yet without the particles , then empty space , upon what is time or change measured ?

Particles are the "material" pole, manifestation or aspect (choose your term) of events.
Events also have a "mental" or experiential pole.
It is process "becoming" that is primary reality. Being "material existence" is merely a manifestation of process.
You can not separate particles from time and change? Being is secondary; becoming is primary.
Or so my process view would assert.
 
Timinater94
 
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 06:21 pm
@ikurwa89,
The only this that can remain unchanges is that everything is changing....

If you noticed i just contradicted myself there.....
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 05:51 pm
@ikurwa89,
Is same evitable?
 
Mad Mike
 
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 01:29 pm
@prothero,
Quote:
well I am with the process philosophers.
Process "becoming" change, flux is primary reality.
It is fixed "being" that is an illusion, a concept imposed by mental construct on a reality which is always in flux and changing relationship.
Reality is composed of moments droplets of experience. Perpetual perishing and rebirth.
One moment of experience perishes and a new moment of experience is born incorporating elements and the past and possiblities of the future.
Time, reality is change (process). The universe is composed of events not particles.


Your process view is the exact opposite of the Greeks' take on things: The physical world of coming-to-be and passing-away is secondary and contingent upon the primary reality of unchanging Being. This is the view also of the other "axial" philosophies, such as Buddhism and Taoism: Everything in this world is impermanent, ever-changing, but something underlying (and of course non-physical) is unchanging. One way of looking at the unchanging is as the eternal laws or forms within which the changes play out (e.g., the hexagrams of the I Ching or Plato's Ideas).

The Greeks also had some cautionary ideas about chopping a continuum into discrete particles, as in the paradoxes of Zeno of Elea, such as the famous one about Achilles and the tortoise. These logic problems purport to prove that motion is impossible and illusory, but they really prove that continua are necessary to explain some things. Change, for instance, is a flow, as Heraclitus saw: No one can step in the same river twice.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 04:43 pm
@ikurwa89,
A quick reply before I give myself to study you is this;
Inevitable is the ending of all things.
So no change is not inevitable.
Only the end is inevitable.
And the end does not change.
 
WonderingMind
 
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2011 08:35 am
@ikurwa89,
Well, i think that we can state that everything, that isn't nothing, can change. It is even possible to bend (and therefore change) time, because time and space are one.
As far as nothingnes goes, it can't exist in our universe as we know it, because if we follow the laws of physics, nothingnes can't exist next to something. Even black holes aren't nothing, because they have actual mass.
Now for your question. I don't know if i'm going too far, but everything that is something HAS to change, even if it's just an almost unmeasurable change. Just a gust of wind of 0,0000000000000001 mph
will inevitably change at least one atoms position a bit. And everything in the universe is bound to be exposed to some kind of movement. I stated earlier that nothingnes doesn't exist in our universe, so unless there are other universes out there with different laws of physics(if there even are any) nothingnes is unchangeable, as it can't be next to something, and there therefore is nothing to change it.
So this is my pretty unqualified reply. I probably say alot of things in this that i don't really know much about so don't be too harsh...
 
-Ramen Lord-
 
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2011 06:22 am
@ikurwa89,
Well,
Yes.

I think change is inevitable ESPECIALLY with living things, such as the delicate balance of Nature on Earth. The living situation is changing every day, and for the organisms to survive they must shift and adapt as well.
(i.e. Evolution, Big Bang Theory, how the Earth Came to Be)
 
hamilton
 
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2011 05:57 pm
@ikurwa89,
ikurwa89 wrote:

What I'm talking about is that nothing in this universe is FIXED.

This universe posses a feature that it has to change regardless.

So if you think change is an inevitable feature of this universe, why do you think so?

If you think otherwise why?

Can you give me example for both cases please.

I'm with change is inevitable from theories such as evolution,plate tectonics and mountain decaying etc.

Thanks:bigsmile:

No. the universe is not fixed. it is obvious in everything around us. evolution, for example. if one thing survives, then it has a change in it that allows it to.
 
MonsieurM
 
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 05:09 pm
Quote:
I'm with change is inevitable from theories such as evolution,plate tectonics and mountain decaying etc.

wouldn't you think that it depends on your perspective/referential, change and static are both intertwined like Ying and Yang (ex: take your body and flash-forward 10 min, you would say that at a macro level nothing changed but at micro level a whole universe of elements inside you have died and been replaced). Time and scale will determine whether it is change in effect or static....Hope this helps...Wink
 
hamilton
 
Reply Mon 21 Mar, 2011 06:27 pm
@MonsieurM,
monsier, you may say that change has happened in the body,but, as a whole, doesnt the body remain unchanged as a whole? the only difference is that those changes have been new, although no change other than replacing old components with new ones.
 
MonsieurM
 
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 07:35 am
Let me put it in another way: "Change is in the eye of the beholder"
 
MorganBieber
 
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 09:04 am
@ikurwa89,
Yes, because of all the things happening causes the world to change every second. Like even breathing causes things to change, you take oxygen out of the air and replace it with carbon dioxide. Thats a change. Theres also air polution, and just many other types of pollution along with it. Think about how many people use hair spray everyday. That harms the ozone thus changing the world.
 
hamilton
 
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2011 12:36 pm
@MorganBieber,
that may be so that there is air pollution, and that we are transmuting oxygen to carbon dioxide, but still, trees will take that and chang it back into oxygen. it is essentially a closed system. also, nothing lasts. everything reverts to the original form eventually. we will cease to exist, like we have before. before we were born, we were not alive. when we die, we are not alive. there will be no change in that.
 
MorganBieber
 
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2011 09:33 pm
@hamilton,
But think about it, with all kinds of businesses building up in wooded areas in which they are cutting down, this cycle of more businesses and cutting down trees in maybe a few thousand years there may no longer be any trees at all but of course, scientists by then may be able to create a different way to breathe or how to create oxygen. I guess we'll never know.
 
hamilton
 
Reply Sat 9 Apr, 2011 04:49 pm
@MorganBieber,
ah, that may be true, eventually, but that will be only temporary. after all, trees themselves have not always been here. they came at one point from nothing, and they can do it again.
 
JLNobody
 
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 08:00 pm
Change is inevitable unless you can find something--anything but abstractions--that is not a process. Consider Heraclitus' axiom of the nature of stepping into rivers.
 
hamilton
 
Reply Sun 1 May, 2011 11:43 am
@JLNobody,
change happens, but it always reverts to the original form.
 
Tifinden
 
Reply Sat 14 May, 2011 07:32 am
@prothero,
change is an inherent feature in a rapidly digressing and progressing system which would collapse in the event of stagnation. Change is what we perceive as the imminent difference and complex, yet innate and subtle, difference between then and now, so quite simply, change might be an ordinarily hallucinogenic product of the process and progression of time.
 
 

 
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