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Is change inevitable?

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What I'm talking about is that nothing in this universe is FIXED.

This universe posses a feature that it has to change regardless.

So if you think change is an inevitable feature of this universe, why do you think so?

If you think otherwise why?

Can you give me example for both cases please.

I'm with change is inevitable from theories such as evolution,plate tectonics and mountain decaying etc.

Thanks:bigsmile:

@ikurwa89,

ikurwa89;153140 wrote:

What I'm talking about is that nothing in this universe is FIXED.

This universe posses a feature that it has to change regardless.

So if you think change is an inevitable feature of this universe, why do you think so?

If you think otherwise why?

Can you give me example for both cases please.

I'm with change is inevitable from theories such as evolution,plate tectonics and mountain decaying etc.

Thanks:bigsmile:

there are things that is changing (things is motion, etc.)

there are also things that cannot change(motionless things, nothingness, etc.)

there are things that change is inevitable
there are also things that change is not possible
both things exist

---------- Post added 04-17-2010 at 05:41 AM ----------

things that "change" will continue to change because they are in motion
thing in motion will continue to "change"
if things in motion will continue to change, and no one can stopping it
therefore change is inevitable

if unchanging things cannot be change
and no things can change the unchanging
then thing that are unchanging is inevitable

things cannot be both changing and unchanging
they just remain on what they are
change will continue to change
non-changing will continue not to change

@Wisdom Seeker,

Wisdom Seeker;153147 wrote:

there are things that is changing (things is motion, etc.)

there are also things that cannot change(motionless things, nothingness, etc.)

there are things that change is inevitable
there are also things that change is not possible
both things exist

---------- Post added 04-17-2010 at 05:41 AM ----------

things that "change" will continue to change because they are in motion
thing in motion will continue to "change"
if things in motion will continue to change, and no one can stopping it
therefore change is inevitable

Could you give some example of motionless things.

@wayne,

wayne;153150 wrote:

Could you give some example of motionless things.

darkness and nothingness
they remain unchange and continue to unchange

@Wisdom Seeker,

Wisdom Seeker;153151 wrote:

darkness and nothingness
they remain unchange and continue to unchange

Darkness is the absence of light.

Nothingness is the absence of matter.

Darkness and nothingness are abstractions existing only in the sense of absence of matter and light. Since there is no absence of either, it cannot be said that darkness or nothingness exist other than as abstract ideas.

@ikurwa89,

ikurwa89;153140 wrote:

What I'm talking about is that nothing in this universe is FIXED.

This universe posses a feature that it has to change regardless.

So if you think change is an inevitable feature of this universe, why do you think so?

If you think otherwise why?

Can you give me example for both cases please.

I'm with change is inevitable from theories such as evolution,plate tectonics and mountain decaying etc.

Thanks:bigsmile:

When the sun dies it will eat up most of the inner planets, we might collide with another galaxy and most of our stars will be totally rearranged, and our galaxy will most likely end up as a fish hook galaxy.
We might even be concumed by a black hole in the collision.

@wayne,

wayne;153152 wrote:

Darkness is the absence of light.

Nothingness is the absence of matter.

Darkness and nothingness are abstractions existing only in the sense of absence of matter and light. Since there is no absence of either, it cannot be said that darkness or nothingness exist other than as abstract ideas.

if darkness is the absence of light
what do you call the absence of darkness?
is there such things as the absence of darkness?

if darkness and nothingness are the absence of existence
and the absence of existence are the only known unchanging
does it mean there is no unchanging things exist?
does all existing things are changing?

if bigger and complicated things are more capable of changing
does the most basic and smallest things are less capable of changing?
or the most basic and smallest things ever are unchanging?

@ikurwa89,

ikurwa89;153140 wrote:

What I'm talking about is that nothing in this universe is FIXED.

This universe posses a feature that it has to change regardless.

So if you think change is an inevitable feature of this universe, why do you think so?

If you think otherwise why?

Can you give me example for both cases please.

I'm with change is inevitable from theories such as evolution,plate tectonics and mountain decaying etc.

Thanks:bigsmile:

We don't know enough to know if there is anything that is fixed or not. But it could well be that the fundamental laws of nature are fixed, though our present knowledge of them is such that we cannot be sure one way or the other on that, as we do not know what, precisely, the fundamental laws of nature are (if there are such things).

It may be that the tiniest particles of matter, if there are such things, never change. Again, we do not presently know one way or the other. And people may never know.

@ikurwa89,

ikurwa89;153140 wrote:

What I'm talking about is that nothing in this universe is FIXED.

This universe posses a feature that it has to change regardless.

So if you think change is an inevitable feature of this universe, why do you think so?

If you think otherwise why?

Can you give me example for both cases please.

I'm with change is inevitable from theories such as evolution,plate tectonics and mountain decaying etc.

Thanks:bigsmile:

If that change is inevitable will never change, then change is inevitable. So there is your answer.

@Wisdom Seeker,

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne

http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif

Could you give some example of motionless things.

Wisdom Seeker;153151 wrote:

darkness and nothingness
they remain unchange and continue to unchange

nothingness can never change into something , absolutely true

darkness though can be changed into light from the light energy of a star

@ikurwa89,

Nothigness CAN"T be the absenceof something because there would have to be something there to say it's the absence of something.

I don't know how to best describe nothingness because it's too abstract and retarded Sad

As for your light/dark dilemma, I would high to say in a dark room you can't possibly say there is no light same goes from a bright room, you can't say there is no darkness.

I was also talking about features such time, space (I read somewhere that time can turn into space and space can turn into time under extreme conditions).

@ikurwa89,

ikurwa89;153402 wrote:

Nothigness CAN"T be the absenceof something because there would have to be something there to say it's the absence of something.

nothing is the exact opposite of something ;

nothing is the absence of dimension, space , depth and time (movement)

hence nothing has NO ability to be other than it is , for infinity

@Wisdom Seeker,

Wisdom Seeker;153185 wrote:

if darkness is the absence of light
what do you call the absence of darkness?
is there such things as the absence of darkness?

You make an interesting point. We could say the absence of darkness is light, but I dont think thats true. Light only extends so far. Darkness attacks light, just as cold attacks heat. But light does seem to change darkness, at least it makes a hole in it, doesn't it?

Wisdom Seeker;153185 wrote:

if darkness and nothingness are the absence of existence
and the absence of existence are the only known unchanging
does it mean there is no unchanging things exist?
does all existing things are changing?

I don't think any existence is unchanging.
Doesn't existence make a hole in nonexistence?

Wisdom Seeker;153185 wrote:

if bigger and complicated things are more capable of changing
does the most basic and smallest things are less capable of changing?
or the most basic and smallest things ever are unchanging?

Apparently the four laws are unchanging, but how can we know they won't change, or haven't changed? Does time change everything?

@wayne,

can the molecular structure of concrete become a tree ?

NO

there are limits to change

@north,

north;153449 wrote:

can the molecular structure of concrete become a tree ?

NO

there are limits to change

Actually ,concrete does eventually deteriorate and become, again, the substance of which trees are made.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust

@ikurwa89,

Everything decays and deteriorates and this same thing can give rise to many.

@north,

north;153330 wrote:

Quote:darkness or nothingness exist other than as abstract ideas.

If darkness and nothingness does not really exist
and darkness and nothingness are abstract ideas
does it mean abstract ideas does not exist?

what do you call love and hatred
they are abstract ideas
does it mean they don't exist?

if existing things are the absence of the non-existing
does it mean they can never affect each other?

why does love affected us? does it mean love exist?
if not then do non-existing things can affects the existing things?

if the non-existing affect existing things then something existing within them that allow them to have contact with the existing things.

---------- Post added 04-18-2010 at 04:21 AM ----------

if love and hatred affected us
and they are abstract ideas
and abstract ideas does not exist
but can affect the existing things
existing things that can change

does it mean the non-existing can change?

then if both existing and non-existing can change
does it mean there is no unchanging in existing and non-existing things?

---------- Post added 04-18-2010 at 04:29 AM ----------

then what can you call to the unchanging things
exist or does not exist?
(but can not affect both existing and non-existing things which is confusing)

@ikurwa89,

Change is a reaction to an event or problem. It's not that it's inevitable, but and event or problem is inevitable. If anything that can happen, will happen, then things must react and change will be made.

Change is inevitable

@ikurwa89,

ikurwa89;153140 wrote:

What I'm talking about is that nothing in this universe is FIXED.

This universe posses a feature that it has to change regardless.

So if you think change is an inevitable feature of this universe, why do you think so?

If you think otherwise why?

Can you give me example for both cases please.

I'm with change is inevitable from theories such as evolution,plate tectonics and mountain decaying etc.

Thanks:bigsmile:

While I believe you that things that are material while change inevitably.

You have to take into account things that are meta-physical. (I.E. the soul, essences) while they don't exist in the physical sense, they very much so exist in the meta-physical sense and need to be accounted for. (I of course make this claim with the pre-set notion that metaphysical things are unchanging)

@Wisdom Seeker,

Wisdom Seeker;153479 wrote:

If darkness and nothingness does not really exist
and darkness and nothingness are abstract ideas
does it mean abstract ideas does not exist?

what do you call love and hatred
they are abstract ideas
does it mean they don't exist?

if existing things are the absence of the non-existing
does it mean they can never affect each other?

why does love affected us? does it mean love exist?
if not then do non-existing things can affects the existing things?

if the non-existing affect existing things then something existing within them that allow them to have contact with the existing things.

---------- Post added 04-18-2010 at 04:21 AM ----------

if love and hatred affected us
and they are abstract ideas
and abstract ideas does not exist
but can affect the existing things
existing things that can change

does it mean the non-existing can change?

then if both existing and non-existing can change
does it mean there is no unchanging in existing and non-existing things?

---------- Post added 04-18-2010 at 04:29 AM ----------

then what can you call to the unchanging things
exist or does not exist?
(but can not affect both existing and non-existing things which is confusing)

Your logic is flawed. Your reasoning is Darkness doesn't exist. Darkness is an abstract idea therefore, all abstract ideas don't exist (such as love).

Using this logic we could deduce that: Eagles are birds. Eagles are big therefore, birds are big (this isn't true).

SO, some abstract ideas exist and others do not. Darkness doesn't exist but Love DOES exist.

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