A Hiding Place

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Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2009 06:48 am
Hello young philosophers, being a librarian I have a weird challenge for you. Imagine the fate of the world was depending on a single piece of information, perhaps a book or a poem or -more probably- a formula, or perhaps just one bit, a Yes or a No. And somehow you had become the keeper of that piece of information, and you would be aware that if "they" would have it everything would be destroyed, not only the Earth but even the whole universe. What would you do to protect that piece of information, and where and how would you (try to) hide it? Storing it on a computer would be the most stupid thing to do, no? Or wouldn't it? It wouldn't be a good idea either to learn it all by heart and then swallow the paper, as they "have means to make you talk". Is there any totally safe way to hide information nowadays and if not what would be the safest of all available ways? Mind the "adult" philosophers are also allowed think about this question. Smile
 
7skullz
 
Reply Wed 10 Jun, 2009 03:36 am
@Catchabula,
First, I would memorize it, then download it into a digital copy that i would wear around my neck in a multi-scanner genetic cryo-lock. I would then put that digital copy in a stasis field, then in a vault, to which only I can open due to a series of painful genetic tests, then put it in a spiky box, then in a box covered in razors, then another spiky box, then in an underground bunker, surrounded by another huge bunker that is a maze, patrolled by lobotomized, half-robot soldiers that at a single command word would turn into babbling, drooling infantile men.

That's how I'd keep it safe...
 
Catchabula
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 03:27 am
@7skullz,
7skullz;67933 wrote:
...a maze, patrolled by lobotomized, half-robot soldiers that at a single command word would turn into babbling, drooling infantile men.


Put it in a library?? That's the bad part of your idea...
 
Lily
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 09:40 am
@Catchabula,
I'd keep it in a jar with jam. Evil people usually don't appreciate jam and wouldn't look there.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Thu 11 Jun, 2009 03:34 pm
@Lily,
I'd have it so unhidden, in the wide open, that 'they' would oversee it.

If I could though, I'd probably destroy this information. The cosmos shouldn't have a single principle to describe the whole of it.

If it were hidden in a library, I'd only want to find it to destroy it, if it were the "absolute truth of the cosmos in one piece of information". However, a naturally imperfect attempt at describing the truth in one piece of information that was human made, then I'd consider it art, something that needs to be kept hidden or protected, because it would be valuable.

Ultimately, such a 'thing' that is a monistic piece of information of the whole of the cosmos does not "shed an light" on purpose, nor do I see it contribute any 'divine' plan to any greater good.
 
7skullz
 
Reply Sat 13 Jun, 2009 01:33 am
@Catchabula,
Catchabula;68225 wrote:
Put it in a library?? That's the bad part of your idea...


Well I meant this so that if they were to be influenced in any way, I coulld make them not work! PLUS it's be funny. :rolleyes::bigsmile:
 
Zacrates
 
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2009 05:09 pm
@Catchabula,
Easy.... I would give it to Chuck Norris.....

JK

I would probably give it to someone else, having them not know what was given to them (this person would be the person i trust the most).
 
The Start Online
 
Reply Sat 20 Jun, 2009 11:56 pm
@Catchabula,
My answer:

They would start to make me talk anyway, no matter where I hided the information. Of course this is only true if they knew that I had the information.

If I had such information, I would destroy it and not even learn it. Depending on the situation, I would commit suicide.

There are many "if"s still left. What if somebody would get that piece of paper again? What if nobody else didn't know that I had the information. What if, if AND IF. :a-thought:

Actually... in reality I wouldn't believe that I had that kind of information to start armageddon or keep the universe alive. Laughing

---------- Post added at 09:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 AM ----------

Oh, and one more thing. If you were asking the best way to hide things in common then I'm not able to answer to your question.

I need empirical and statistical proves, what are good places for hiding (world end) information.
 
Thanatos phil
 
Reply Tue 23 Jun, 2009 09:02 pm
@Catchabula,
I would try one of two things either A. tie the information to a specific image so that only when seeing the image would i remember the information or (probably the better solution) B. Spread and split the information between other people and only remember their names (each person would have only a piece of the information, not the whole).
 
CyraEm
 
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 11:26 pm
@Catchabula,
Nowhere here does it say I must retain the information. Much better to destroy it entirely, without memorizing it, and lead them on a wild goose chase. Leave answers here and there, run from them enough that they follow. If the world is at stake, a lifetime of running and hiding in order to keep them occupied is more than worth it.
 
ltdaleadergt
 
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 12:09 am
@Catchabula,
i dono, does the exitence of the information and knowing the details of the content of the paper helps in exitence of the universe? If no I would just burn it. If yes I would just simply lable it as "an Expert deeper look in Romeo and Juliet" and Place it in some Highschool, this way no one well ever look at it. Or perhaps do some fancy cryptography
 
Catchabula
 
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 06:13 am
@Catchabula,
These are all interesting approaches. I thought a bit about this myself too. Imho you can not destroy this kind of information whatever you try, because if it existed once in the universe it is highly probable it will appear again, whatever you tried to destroy it the first time. It almost seems as the universe wants to be destroyed, as it produces all the necessary preconditions (the bad guys, the formula, our weakness...). Why not give out the information and see if the universe is really destroyed or chooses to destroy itself? It seems we can not avoid that anyway, or only postpone the moment for an insignificant bit of time. Can we fight the "will" or the nature of the universe? Maybe it's all a way to test our human strenght, particularly our intelligence and our will to survive. And why did I say the universe? This could as well be a "test by God"... (P.S. I'm not God :whistling: ).
 
CyraEm
 
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 09:09 am
@Catchabula,
Catchabula;79748 wrote:
These are all interesting approaches. I thought a bit about this myself too. Imho you can not destroy this kind of information whatever you try, because if it existed once in the universe it is highly probable it will appear again, whatever you tried to destroy it the first time. It almost seems as the universe wants to be destroyed, as it produces all the necessary preconditions (the bad guys, the formula, our weakness...). Why not give out the information and see if the universe is really destroyed or chooses to destroy itself? It seems we can not avoid that anyway, or only postpone the moment for an insignificant bit of time. Can we fight the "will" or the nature of the universe? Maybe it's all a way to test our human strenght, particularly our intelligence and our will to survive. And why did I say the universe? This could as well be a "test by God"... (P.S. I'm not God :whistling: ).


Perhaps, but I highly doubt the universe is self-destructive. And if it is, it will get the information from me whether I cooperate or not. I don't know if I would bet the whole of life in the universe on conjecture.

As to your supposition that the information will turn up again, if this were true than my posession of the information would not be so highly valued. If this were a formula that they could just figure it out again, why does it matter that I have it? The only real reason there would be convenience, not having to go through the work again.
 
Catchabula
 
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 01:33 pm
@Catchabula,
The universe IS self-destructive. Will the Big Bang not be followed by a Big Crunch, depending on the total amount of mass in the universe? Nothing of what we will ever know will influence a process on that scale. But there must be formulas that predict and even describe the event...

But in fact that was not my point. I added the possible destruction of the whole universe merely as an element of drama. I want to make this "real" now. How and where can we hide information that may never be known by the "other side"? Mind "they" have the same resources as you, and you can imagine yourself in any role you like, intelligence officer with the CIA for example, and/or you have a Superconductive Supercomputer at hand. The destruction of the universe may not be at stake, but perhaps the destruction of an army, of a city, of the idea and the achievements of democracy. Isn't that for humans almost equal to the universe? Perhaps you are a democratic virologist in a totalitarian state, and you discovered how to make a "bug" that would enable your government to decimate the world population? Or you are a nuclear scientist in Nazi-Germany, and you made a discovery that would enable your government to make an A-bomb in six months? If you want it even shorter: how to most effectively hide information today or in any other well-specified world? Completely equivalent is the question: how to retrieve even the best hidden information? Let's make the solutions as real as the problem, ok? For some people this problem is or has been pretty real...
 
CyraEm
 
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 11:24 pm
@Catchabula,
The information should be destroyed, immediately. No memorization. No preservative techniques. If it is something so volatile as to require such measures, there is no reason to preserve it. The information should be destroyed and the people involved are the ones who need to be hidden. Or, in the case of the scientist in a regime, the person involved needs to deceive. Once the information is destroyed, all measures should be taken to ensure that those who would want it never find out it existed at all.
 
AOS
 
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 12:16 am
@Catchabula,
i would probably also spread the info with lots of people
each one would be aware of a place that you need to go to find a scripture that holds a peice of the info (yes a scripture only because it looks cool hehe)
 
Lily
 
Reply Fri 31 Jul, 2009 09:04 am
@Catchabula,
I'd trust the allmighty author. The good always win. Otherwise it's a really crappy book and I wouldn't bother reading it. Unless it's a poetic sad ending, sometimes sadness can be very beautiful. Romeo and Juliette for an example. I think I'm getting a bit of topic here... Well, my point is that if you could have that sort of informatition and there's a "they" trying to get it it's probably made up. And if it is made up I could defend it with my superpowers and my partner-in-crime Nigel the Knight, the laziest knight ever seen who's afraid of the dark and always insist on wearing a very ugly pink armour, and some cool gadgets:a-ok:
 
Kat333
 
Reply Sat 1 Aug, 2009 12:30 pm
@Catchabula,
I don't think that something like that should exist.
I would lock it up in a very, very small airtight box with a weight, and glue tons and tons of sand to this box.
Then I would throw in into a part of the ocean that isn't interesting at all, and no one really cares about.
Then I would live the rest of my life with a vial of fast-acting poison around my neck, tell no one what was in the vial, and if anyone ever asked me about the box, drink it immediately. Or more probably commit suicide.

But I don't think I would be able to resist looking at it, so I might become a hermit and meditate on it until I figure out what it means. And then commit suicide.
 
Dunkler Schatten
 
Reply Sat 1 Aug, 2009 08:06 pm
@Catchabula,
I would tell them I had it, but that I would only tell the leader that I had it. And once I was in the leaders office, I would activate the explosives I had planted inside the base, leveling the place, destroying the information, the organization, and myself, the only person with any knowledge of the info, in one fell swoop.
 
RiseandbeHeard
 
Reply Mon 7 Sep, 2009 09:16 pm
@Catchabula,
Socrates once stated that he was the wisest man in the world because he admitted that he knew nothing. Along this principle, I would simply put this small slip of paper in a fortune cookie, and eat the whole thing, paper and all; thus rendering the paper forever unattainable. For if I know nothing, how can I be held accountable for anything?
 
 

 
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