Socialism

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gotmilk9991
 
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 05:19 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;No one gets turned away in the states. If you show up at the emergency room they will treat you weather you are covered or not. But like I said before, people who will receive "free" health care will over consume thus creating lines. Over consumption reduces the over all resources from those who really need it. Not to mention it wont cost any less, but instead, more. But instead of paying upfront you will get docked in your paychecks. Pay more, for lower quality. That is what this new health care system will entail.[/QUOTE wrote:





This is not true. There have been plenty of stories of people whom have had to wait for hours and have been denied care. For example teh story of the woman who died in the waiting room, and the video of a man sweeping around her body as she laid dying on the floor.
 
RDanneskjld
 
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 05:53 am
@xris,
xris;90529 wrote:
What are you talking about democratic socialism or communism? When has commerce been stunted by socialism ? these strange accusations need a certain clarification.

I was talking about democratic socialism. Communism suffers from far greater problems when looked at from an economic point of view. Just one example of how large governement spending can stunt commerce is the phenomena of 'Crowding Out' where a government who is not beholden to the profit motive, borrows significant amount money which drives up interest rates and prevents private firms borrowing fund for investment which is of vital importance for achieving capital deepening. These accusations are not strange in the slightest having been discussed by many prominent economists.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 05:58 am
@gotmilk9991,
gotmilk9991;90539 wrote:
This is not true. There have been plenty of stories of people whom have had to wait for hours and have been denied care. For example teh story of the woman who died in the waiting room, and the video of a man sweeping around her body as she laid dying on the floor.


What story? When did this happen? Where did it happen?
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 06:08 am
@RDanneskjld,
R.Danneskjöld;90550 wrote:
I was talking about democratic socialism. Communism suffers from far greater problems when looked at from an economic point of view. Just one example of how large governement spending can stunt commerce is the phenomena of 'Crowding Out' where a government who is not beholden to the profit motive, borrows significant amount money which drives up interest rates and prevents private firms borrowing fund for investment which is of vital importance for achieving capital deepening. These accusations are not strange in the slightest having been discussed by many prominent economists.
This is not a phenomena of just socialist governments, its not part and parcel of socialist doctrine.
 
richrf
 
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 07:45 am
@xris,
xris;90556 wrote:
This is not a phenomena of just socialist governments, its not part and parcel of socialist doctrine.


I agree. Corrupt governments are independent of any economic system. In any case, every economic system nowadays is a mix bag of socialism (social security, medicare, unemployment insurance, government run transportation industries) and private sector, as one group competes against the other group for wealth.

Rich
 
gotmilk9991
 
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 05:12 pm
@gotmilk9991,
A woman in maryland was at a hospital, she had some stomach pain. She doubled over on the floor in pain, she had no health care or anything, the janitor who had been making rounds at the time swept right around her. A man whom had just been brought in on the ambulance from a broken arm i believe was put before her. She died there on the floor. There is even a video on the web of the janitor sweeping around her.
 
awoelt
 
Reply Fri 27 Nov, 2009 07:55 pm
@gotmilk9991,
no government is impenetrable. every government we have is unstable because there are humans in control. Humans that are not secure and could take absolute control. that is why our democratic-republic is the best solution. there are two parties arguing and fighting for control. no one person or people are in control. so the best government would be one controlled by a perfect superhuman. such as the law of consecration i believe (correct me if I'm wrong) was invented by Judaism. it is basically socialism with the prophet in control who is lead by god and will not lead the people away. everyone contributes and helps each other. but since our government is controlled by arguing politicians and not one ruling Josef Stalin.
 
Leonard
 
Reply Thu 3 Dec, 2009 03:34 pm
@gotmilk9991,
Because some people would rather have their health be a business than a right.
 
George phil
 
Reply Wed 9 Dec, 2009 05:56 pm
@gotmilk9991,
It seems to me that you are putting democracy and socialism in the same ideological spectrum, this should not be the case, moreover democracy is on another ideological axis at the extreme oppoiste of autocracy. The two, although are genrally partnered together bear no relatoin to one another as democracy refers to giving the supreme power to all mthe the people, a political system, and socialism is more of an economic system
 
Deckard
 
Reply Wed 9 Dec, 2009 10:45 pm
@George phil,
Problems seem to begin when things get too BIG. Big government just as bad as big business. Keep things smaller. Smallism not socialism. It's a trade off between efficiencies of scale and corruptions of scale.

Insurance is a special case. It's not a real business. They produce no actual value. The bigger the pool the better the coverage. It's obvious that it should be nationalized. Single payer. Banks are a similar case. They produce no actual value thus should be nationalized.

Keep legitimate businesses small. Nationalize/socialize "businesses" that produce no value.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 9 Dec, 2009 11:46 pm
@gotmilk9991,
I do think smallism is a good principle. Good post, D, quite to the point.
 
 

 
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