How to read the bible?

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

KaseiJin
 
Reply Wed 26 May, 2010 07:24 pm
@ABYA,
prothero;169166 wrote:

Who are we? Where did we come from? How do we relate to each other, to nature and to the question of god.


This, actually, is one of the faults of trying to anchor our lines of explanation in mostly outdated mythology. While the H. sapiens is still pretty much the H. sapiens of that general era, empirical knowledge is such that we no longer need to value (beyond the disciplines of the humanities) their explanatory values. We have plenty enough a firm understanding of especially how we relate to nature, and to each other--not to mention the other being in the animal kingdom, of which we are every bit a part. We know well, who we are. We know well, where we came from (in a general enough accurate report). We don't need ancient writings to shed any additional information there, because they cannot!


prothero;169166 wrote:

It is no accident that Biblical themes are the foundation for so much of western art, music and literature and the source of so much discussion even in the modern day.


I challenge this conclusion. It can hardly be said that it was no accident, if it can be entertained at all, even. We could say, however, that it was likely due to an error, on behalf of Constantine's sparing partner. To assert that the continuation of a certain strain of Christianity, and it's eventual popularity with the ruling class, so as to cause that continuation, was not by accident, is to assert that it was the determination of a mind. That, has well been demonstrated to not be the case at all. But, I regress, the thread's theme is about how to read the Bible.

ABYA;169309 wrote:
Yes, Abraham was a real person and Moses did write the Torah, the first five books of the Bible.


This is extremely least likely the case, ABYA; so much so as to make the assertion a falsehood. Please tell me, I pray, where did you dig up the sources for this assertion. Please do provide at least some source material that I can try to check out--otherwise the greatly unfounded assertion is simply a private whimsical notion.


ABYA;169309 wrote:
Originaly the torah was written as one single word, . . .

We might have to open the window, it's getting a little too fluffy in here. Again, this is plain ole, out right imagination. No, ABYA, this is not true at all ! The Torah had more than one author, and was compiled over an extended period of time, and the personage described in especially the Genesis, Exodus portions cannot be claimed to have been a real, living, single individual. Just like Yeshua, there may well have a real human which became the 'source model' for a certain movement within the earlier, polytheistic pre-Davidic tribes, but the character is far most likely just that, a character in a later compiled total of post-exilic Israel (Second Temple period).
 
Krumple
 
Reply Wed 26 May, 2010 08:16 pm
@lazymon,
lazymon;168980 wrote:
The bible is only useful if you read it properly which is the reason I started this topic.

One of the greatest useful things that has come from the text is the story of Jesus. I think many people agree how wonderful this story is because it was probably the first story of a merciful God who has the power to forgive anyone.

Just to fathom the idea and to think that someone somewhere came up with the story. Or better yet could there be a God with this trait? That God planned the arrival of Jesus and his story from the beginning?

Basically what I am talking about is the idea that if someone is to slap you in the face that you should turn the other cheek and let them hit you again. To think that this is a more favorable thing for mankind is pretty strange to most. Even when we slap God he turns the other cheek and lets us slap him again. He always forgives. So it is useful for teaching forgiveness.

Of course not everyone can see the story for what it is let alone put the act to practice. At least the story is there. Someone somewhere wrote it down.


The Buddha taught similar things but not only dealing with people but all sentient beings. The only difference is, the Buddha taught these things 500 years prior to Jesus or Christianity. So these supposed great teachings that always get attributed to Jesus and Christianity, well they weren't unique in any way for the time or for the lesson. Chances are these philosophies were around for a long time but since a majority of Christians are uneducated in other philosophies they assume their faith is unique.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 26 May, 2010 08:30 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;169151 wrote:
Hmmm? Yes? Could you elaborate please?


A good story is often good to us because it shows us something general about human nature. A movie is usually considered shallow if it doesn't give us perspective on our real lives. What are your favorite movies? Why do you feel they are your favorites? If Shakespeare were alive today, I suspect he would be directing movies, or at least writing the scripts.

I read your garbageman parable. And that's a good example of narrative used to say something about reality. And history is a narrative that we consider true or partially true. In the same way myth tries to say something about our real lives. A good story is "news that stays news."

What do you think? I'd be interested to hear your favorite stories, and what they mean to you. Smile

---------- Post added 05-26-2010 at 09:33 PM ----------

Krumple;169361 wrote:
The Buddha taught similar things but not only dealing with people but all sentient beings. The only difference is, the Buddha taught these things 500 years prior to Jesus or Christianity. So these supposed great teachings that always get attributed to Jesus and Christianity, well they weren't unique in any way for the time or for the lesson. Chances are these philosophies were around for a long time but since a majority of Christians are uneducated in other philosophies they assume their faith is unique.



You make an excellent point. I completely agree. Doesn't Christ have all sorts of mythical similarity with Osiris? Or I am getting that confused. Christianity is just one set of metaphors among others, in my opinion. I do like that we have such a great translation in the King James, and also the great Western painters. But I love the myth and art of other religions also. The Tao is a brilliant book, and hard to classify.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Wed 26 May, 2010 09:04 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;169367 wrote:
A good story is often good to us because it shows us something general about human nature. A movie is usually considered shallow if it doesn't give us perspective on our real lives. What are your favorite movies? Why do you feel they are your favorites? If Shakespeare were alive today, I suspect he would be directing movies, or at least writing the scripts.

I read your garbageman parable. And that's a good example of narrative used to say something about reality. And history is a narrative that we consider true or partially true. In the same way myth tries to say something about our real lives. A good story is "news that stays news."
I see many movies, scriptures ..etc about general human behaviour, that doesn't really mean it's good, nor useful, it's only good and useful to me if it's explain/showed in an intelligent way.

I like StarWars IV-VI, they were really beautifully made, simple strong diaglogues and poetry, very thoughtful design of buildings, cloth, spacecrafts ..etc. "dusk is upon me, and soon night shall fall"
Specially that it was based on the thought of nobility and shivelry, you don't hear Luke swear and curse, he titulates bad people with respects ..etc. All other movies after that, I consider low moral, low ethics and puerile.

Ben Hur, strong movie, really deep feelings of hate, love and the whole spectrum of feelings.

The Shogun (1980) I found this TV series, gotesquely funny. It defyed every value we have in the west, splitting your gut open just because of minescule lost honor, wanting to get beheaded just because you are refused getting as job as samurai.
Everything was just ending in death before dishonor, death ...death ..and more death! In the west we would just shrug and life goes on, buisness as usual.

Terminator 2 cool movie, plausible scenario, cool fx. giving good inspiration for the future.

Rambo 1 ..at first I hated this movie, about some whiney solider, but only when I learned how to interpet the movie, I really liked it.
I was explained that he was a highly decorated soldier who was poorly treated, even though he has fought for his country and proven himself, by that I respected Sylvester Stallone for making the movie, and it was suddenly far better than any of those cheap ass action movies that I had regarded so highly for cheap explosions and shooting all over the place in urealistic I-can-shoot-30-bad-guys-before-they-shoot-me-in-10-sec!

Godfather 1+2 really showing the need of sharp minds to stay afloat in a cynically world, how cheap life is. How powerful a father figure is.

-----------

You have excatly understood nothing of my garbageman parable. You are excatly what I try to eliminate by this story.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 26 May, 2010 09:20 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;169388 wrote:
I see many movies, scriptures ..etc about general human behaviour, that doesn't really mean it's good, nor useful, it's only good and useful to me if it's explain/showed in an intelligent way.

I like StarWars IV-VI, they were really beautifully made, simple strong diaglogues and poetry, very thoughtful design of buildings, cloth, spacecrafts ..etc. "dusk is upon me, and soon night shall fall"
Specially that it was based on the thought of nobility and shivelry, you don't hear Luke swear and curse, he titulates bad people with respects ..etc. All other movies after that, I consider low moral, low ethics and puerile.

Ben Hur, strong movie, really deep feelings of hate, love and the whole spectrum of feelings.

The Shogun (1980) I found this TV series, gotesquely funny. It defyed every value we have in the west, splitting your gut open just because of minescule lost honor, wanting to get beheaded just because you are refused getting as job as samurai.
Everything was just ending in death before dishonor, death ...death ..and more death! In the west we would just shrug and life goes on, buisness as usual.

Terminator 2 cool movie, plausible scenario, cool fx. giving good inspiration for the future.

Rambo 1 ..at first I hated this movie, about some whiney solider, but only when I learned how to interpet the movie, I really liked it.
I was explained that he was a highly decorated soldier who was poorly treated, even though he has fought for his country and proven himself, by that I respected Sylvester Stallone for making the movie, and it was suddenly far better than any of those cheap ass action movies that I had regarded so highly for cheap explosions and shooting all over the place in urealistic I-can-shoot-30-bad-guys-before-they-shoot-me-in-10-sec!

Godfather 1+2 really showing the need of sharp minds to stay afloat in a cynically world, how cheap life is. How powerful a father figure is.

-----------

You have excatly understood nothing of my garbageman parable. You are excatly what I try to eliminate by this story.


Thanks for your response. I think of good stories as psychology by example. Understanding human nature is practical. Of course some writers/directors are better than others. Some movies are just wankery. But deep ones resonate for a reason. And the bible is a collection of resonant stories, among other things. If you liked the Godfather trilogy, you would love the book of Kings. It's the story of good and evil, honest and corrupt kings, and their battles, speechs, private lives, etc. etc. , their loyalities and treacheries, their bravery and their cowardice. It's a great war epic, essentially, but with a "camera" that follows the man apart from his business.


I'm not sure I'm the target of your parable. Here's something you may like. I've always liked it. It's Nietzsche, who I bet you would like in general.
Quote:

And what magnificent instruments of observation we possess in our senses! This nose, for example, of which no philosopher has yet spoken with reverence and gratitude, is actually the most delicate instrument so far at our disposal: it is able to detect minimal differences of motion which even a spectroscope cannot detect. Today we possess science precisely to the extent to which we have decided to accept the testimony of the senses -- to the extent to which we sharpen them further, arm them, and have learned to think them through. The rest is miscarriage and not-yet-science -- in other words, metaphysics, theology, psychology, epistemology -- or formal science, a doctrine of signs, such as logic and that applied logic which is called mathematics. In them reality is not encountered at all, not even as a problem -- no more than the question of the value of such a sign-convention as logic.
Nietzsche: Twilight of the Idols (excerpts)
 
 

 
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 06/17/2019 at 05:59:47