How to read the bible?

@KaseiJin,

KaseiJin;167682 wrote:

How does one go about with reading the Bible?

*Start with learning Classic Hebrew (with a little background in Chaldean);
*Add to that, learning Koine Greek;
*Do some studies in ancient Mediterranean cultural geography and comparative religious systems;
*Do some studies in Greco-Roman literature;
*Do some textual studies in Second Temple Judaism;
*Do research in the several scholarly areas of critical analysis; [INDENT]. . . then one can read the Bible pretty well.[/INDENT]

If this is the case then god would be incompetent. It would be like ordering a piece of furniture that you have to assemble yourself. The instructions come with it except for you to understand how to put it together, you have to learn 5 different languages, translate one into the other. Study the engineer who built it and learn where the materials came from. It is absolutely absurd.

If your fate relies on understanding what this supposed god has in mind for you, then by all means the message must be absolutely and profoundly clear. If it is not clearly accessible then I question the validity of both the message and god itself. Surely a god would be capable of creating a work that would be easily understood. Or maybe not? I mean if such a being was unable, then perhaps that being isn't a god at all, but just some egotistical wanna be, or there is absolutely no gods at all. Just human imagination wanting to forgo death of the self.

If the bible requires that you learn other languages and study the culture of the area in which it was derived, then by all means it is impractical and useless. Which if I can also add, it already is even without needing to learn another language.

@lazymon,

I would argue the point in a slightly different hyperbole (or analogy), perhaps, though. Rather than the Bible's being like an ordered piece of furniture which one is required to put together using instructions in a number of languages, etc. etc., it is much more like a collection of pieces of wooden parts from different makers which some have tried to piece together into a singe thing--say, a chair--when, actually it can also be made into a stool, or a step ladder, etc.. Additionally, there aren't any instructions with it at all (except for those from those who once, long ago, had decided it was a chair to be built, and then went about choosing certain pieces from among that larger collection of pieces).

Therefore, what the extra time and energy spent on studying will help to achieve, is the realization that while one can do whatever they may want to with those pieces of wood, what is actually in front of us is a hodgepodge from idealized furniture pieces from long lost designers, whose exact purpose and intent is pretty much only guessable from the total possible constructions of all the pieces of wood that can be found--and not those collected out from among them, and chosen to be used for a certain presupposed 'chair.'

In this case, to help clarify, we must start from the position of the content as being the content of the individual works, and thus cannot, in advance, take the position of any 'presented-inside-the-aggregate-of-the-works' god-model to be something outside of that content. Thus whether the god-model presented within the content would prove to be incompetent, either within the bounds and framework of that content alone, or as compared with the real world, will have to suspended until full reading is done.

I wouldn't, however, argue that the Bible is useless; it does make for good study practices, provide insight on the mind of those several ages (within that more specific Jewish~Dispora culture), and is one voice in comparative religious belief system studies (which is surely somewhat of a staple in the humanities).

@lazymon,

How to read the Bible?

...

Every day, of course.

@lazymon,

How to read the bible?

The old testament is written in a language of branch's.
Branch's are words from this world that are used to explain Spitiuality.
There is not one word in the OT that refers to this physical world, it only talks about Spitituality. If we read the Bible from this perspective, we will be reading it correctly. We may not understand what we are reading but atleast we know that its about Spirituality we don't understand.

When you read the story of Adam, Eve and the Serpent, we are reading about a desire to give and a desire to receive and egoism.

Heres a bit about Abraham, that might help you on how to read the Bible.
Abraham was born in Mesopotamia, this is our starting point in our quest for Spirituality, Mesopotamia equals our desire to be receivers of pleasure.

Abraham immigrated to Israel, Israel equals the will to give. Israel, comes from the Jewish words Yasher = straight and El = God, meaning straight to God. So when we read of Abraham Leaving Mesopotamia and going to Israel, this means that, this Spititual desire called Abraham, took on the desire to bestow, to become like the Creator.

Abraham then goes to Egypt because of a famine. Egypt equals the will to receive and Pharoah is the epitome of egoism. When we are in Israel its considered an ascent and when we are in Egypt its considered a descent. The famine is a spiritual famine, when Abraham has nothing to give, He needs to be in that state called Egypt to receive.
Happy reading

@ABYA,

ABYA;168842 wrote:

How to read the bible?
...

This is really interesting stuff, what would you suppose the genealogy stuff is? One time I thought maybe all the ages represented some kind of numerical code that had a secret meaning, though I figured I would need to know Hebrew to extract any meaning.

@ABYA,

ABYA;168842 wrote:

How to read the bible?

The old testament is written in a language of branch's.
Branch's are words from this world that are used to explain Spitiuality.
There is not one word in the OT that refers to this physical world, it only talks about Spitituality. If we read the Bible from this perspective, we will be reading it correctly. We may not understand what we are reading but atleast we know that its about Spirituality we don't understand.

When you read the story of Adam, Eve and the Serpent, we are reading about a desire to give and a desire to receive and egoism.

Heres a bit about Abraham, that might help you on how to read the Bible.
Abraham was born in Mesopotamia, this is our starting point in our quest for Spirituality, Mesopotamia equals our desire to be receivers of pleasure.

Abraham immigrated to Israel, Israel equals the will to give. Israel, comes from the Jewish words Yasher = straight and El = God, meaning straight to God. So when we read of Abraham Leaving Mesopotamia and going to Israel, this means that, this Spititual desire called Abraham, took on the desire to bestow, to become like the Creator.

Abraham then goes to Egypt because of a famine. Egypt equals the will to receive and Pharoah is the epitome of egoism. When we are in Israel its considered an ascent and when we are in Egypt its considered a descent. The famine is a spiritual famine, when Abraham has nothing to give, He needs to be in that state called Egypt to receive.
Happy reading

How do you know that this is really what was intended? Because you can take any work of literature and do the exact same thing. You are only taking aspects, very basic aspects of events and drawing correlations. It is so general I bet there are contradictions that you are ignoring. I am not as versed in the material so I can't point out that there are any but I bet a small fortune that there are. I can even do the same with a movie plot.

@lazymon,

Lazymon wrote

Quote:

This is really interesting stuff, what would you suppose the genealogy stuff is?

Hi, you maybe right about a numerical code, Gematria, the interplay between letters and numbers plays a large part in ancient Hebrew, but this is how I see it.

According to Kabbalah it takes 6,000 yrs for the correction of the souls on Earth. Talking Spiritualy these are 6,000 stages or steps the soul has to go through.
People in the O.T are Spititual degrees, and places are Spiritual forces, so I take the length of yrs mentioned in the genealogy to be the number of steps the particular degree has advanced towards correction.

---------- Post added 05-25-2010 at 09:53 PM ----------

Krumple wrote

Quote:

How do you know that this is really what was intended?

Hi Krumple

I promise you there are no contradictions that I've come across, but there are lots that I don,t yet understand.
I need to advance Spiritually, negate my egoism. The more one advances from reception to bestowal, the more the Bible opens up.

@ABYA,

ABYA;168867 wrote:

Lazymon wrote

Hi, you maybe right about a numerical code, Gematria, the interplay between letters and numbers plays a large part in ancient Hebrew, but this is how I see it.

According to Kabbalah it takes 6,000 yrs for the correction of the souls on Earth. Talking Spiritualy these are 6,000 stages or steps the soul has to go through.
People in the O.T are Spititual degrees, and places are Spiritual forces, so I take the length of yrs mentioned in the genealogy to be the number of steps the particular degree has advanced towards correction.

I know a little bit of the kabbalah, what I really want to know is; Do the all Jews teach Kabbalah?

I figure that not all Jews know and teach it, the same way that not all Christians believe in Hell. Was Abraham a real person? Was Moses the real author of Genesis? Did Moses as the author intend for Kabbalah wisdom to be hidden in its message? Did God secretly place Kabbalah wisdom in Moses writings without him knowing it?

I think that since there is so much controversy over the historical and scientific facts surrounding the "creation of Genesis" that I am very skeptical whether or not I should follow any religion for any reason other than doing good works. I just can't stand the idea of being a "sheep" when people have been led to do horrible things like slavery or the nazi regime all in the name of "God".

The bible codes I believe is a hoax for the very reason that the software and math can be applied to any book. Also it seems that many people that teach bible codes only do so for a profit. Bible codes are just an elaborate political and business endeavor. A very good hoax that many will succumb to. I have a feeling that kabbalah is different since kabbalah is good for the mind and spirit to think about. So far I haven't seen any kind of agenda pushing or political messages within kabbalah. It seems to be just a spiritual guide for personal wisdom.

@lazymon,

The Bible is one of the best books anywhere. Period. I'm not a believer at all in the usual sense. Not at all. But the Bible is much deeper than, as it is of course a library written over the course of centuries. All sorts of styles, genres, translations. At it's best it's an utterly sublime book. Personally, I read at as the work of men (and possibly a woman or two).

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;168887 wrote:

The Bible is one of the best books anywhere. Period. I'm not a believer at all in the usual sense. Not at all. But the Bible is much deeper than, as it is of course a library written over the course of centuries. All sorts of styles, genres, translations. At it's best it's an utterly sublime book. Personally, I read at as the work of men (and possibly a woman or two).

So tell me something useful from the book please.

@HexHammer,

HexHammer;168907 wrote:

So tell me something useful from the book please.

I'll see what comes to mind.
1. The Genesis myths are brilliant. Man's sin is to want to be like God. This is not so different from Greek tragedy. That's the fruit of the tree which happens to be the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This ties in to human arrogance, human self-righteousness. We like to play God and make others play along with our personal conceptions of right and wrong.
2. Adam is a presented as a namer. If there is anything obvious about the difference between us and animals, it is our language use. And make no mistake, language is our ultimate technology, and that which makes/made all other technology possible. Physics is still just naming, except we have refined ordinary speech into a system of explanatory concepts are brilliantly precise quantified relationships organized by these explanatory concepts with a unified causal network. We conceive Nature as something unified and subject to law. This is a sophisticated modification of the monotheism featured in the Bible.
3. Let's skip ahead to the story of Saul, David, Solomon, and all that great stuff. We have here an epic as good as Homer's, if not better. And written in an incredibly terse style. And then translated by poets from the age of Shakespeare. English in its prime, perhaps. This is just brilliant narrative, and narrative has all sorts of meanings. We have war, love, betrayal, lust, envy, all sorts of brilliant stuff. You should give Kings a read. It's a brutal sublime epic.
4. Ecclesiastes is a strange old book. "All is vanity, says the Preacher." A weary old man who has tried everything offers a run down on life. Eat, drink, be merry, enjoy your days on earth. Wisdom is vanity. It's all vanity. Etc. It's nothing like the rest of the bible, as far as I can tell. The Bible is a library from different centuries, hands, attitudes.
5. Job is a deep book about the problem of evil, the injustice on planet Earth. A good man is screwed over in every way. All his children are killed. His wife advises him to "curse God and die." His intellectual friends insist he must be guilty of something, because "God is just." But Job refuses the temptation to curse God and also to accept guilt. He is innocent, and god is torturing him. He sticks to that. They argue all this for awhile and God speaks from the whirlwind. He mocks the silly humans for babbling about good and evil and brags about creating the world. He's an artistic monster-child with infinite power, making fun of the moral chatter of humans. This is not your grandmother's theology, unless your grandmother is...special. Smile

4. The gospels are some of the deepest ethical and mythological writing around. But there is also poison there. I don't know how many hands may have tinkered with them, but the stories and parables and dialogue within the gospels are genius, excepting the insane or devious parts here and there. THe gospels are best enjoyed by an agnostic or an atheist. They can be savored for the good parts.
5. Saint Paul is sometimes wise, often not so likable.
6. Revelation is a wild ride of pagan imagery stuffed into a psychotic fantasy of world destruction. And yet the myth is sometimes great here, too. A perfect cubical city called New Jerusalem is featured. All sorts of wild visions are presented. It's just deep, strange, otherworldly I-don't-know-what. It won't take out the trash for you, or put money in your hand, but its a brilliant book. No average person could manage it. Takes someone half-mad, half-genius. It's as good as modern sci-fi, I think. And there are deeper levels of meaning. :detective:

This is only to mention a few points. The Bible is rich with meaning, much richer than a post can do justice to.

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;168913 wrote:

I'll see what comes to mind.
1. The Genesis myths are brilliant. Man's sin is to want to be like God. This is not so different from Greek tragedy. That's the fruit of the tree which happens to be the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This ties in to human arrogance, human self-righteousness. We like to play God and make others play along with our personal conceptions of right and wrong.
2. Adam is a presented as a namer. If there is anything obvious about the difference between us and animals, it is our language use. And make no mistake, language is our ultimate technology, and that which makes/made all other technology possible. Physics is still just naming, except we have refined ordinary speech into a system of explanatory concepts are brilliantly precise quantified relationships organized by these explanatory concepts with a unified causal network. We conceive Nature as something unified and subject to law. This is a sophisticated modification of the monotheism featured in the Bible.
3. Let's skip ahead to the story of Saul, David, Solomon, and all that great stuff. We have here an epic as good as Homer's, if not better. And written in an incredibly terse style. And then translated by poets from the age of Shakespeare. English in its prime, perhaps. This is just brilliant narrative, and narrative has all sorts of meanings. We have war, love, betrayal, lust, envy, all sorts of brilliant stuff. You should give Kings a read. It's a brutal sublime epic.
4. Ecclesiastes is a strange old book. "All is vanity, says the Preacher." A weary old man who has tried everything offers a run down on life. Eat, drink, be merry, enjoy your days on earth. Wisdom is vanity. It's all vanity. Etc. It's nothing like the rest of the bible, as far as I can tell. The Bible is a library from different centuries, hands, attitudes.
5. Job is a deep book about the problem of evil, the injustice on planet Earth. A good man is screwed over in every way. All his children are killed. His wife advises him to "curse God and die." His intellectual friends insist he must be guilty of something, because "God is just." But Job refuses the temptation to curse God and also to accept guilt. He is innocent, and god is torturing him. He sticks to that. They argue all this for awhile and God speaks from the whirlwind. He mocks the silly humans for babbling about good and evil and brags about creating the world. He's an artistic monster-child with infinite power, making fun of the moral chatter of humans. This is not your grandmother's theology, unless your grandmother is...special.
4. The gospels are some of the deepest ethical and mythological writing around. But there is also poison there. I don't know how many hands may have tinkered with them, but the stories and parables and dialogue within the gospels are genius, excepting the insane or devious parts here and there. THe gospels are best enjoyed by an agnostic or an atheist. They can be savored for the good parts.
5. Saint Paul is sometimes wise, often not so likable.
6. Revelation is a wild ride of pagan imagery stuffed into a psychotic fantasy of world destruction. And yet the myth is sometimes great here, too. A perfect cubical city called New Jerusalem is featured. All sorts of wild visions are presented. It's just deep, strange, otherworldly I-don't-know-what. It won't take out the trash for you, or put money in your hand, but its a brilliant book. No average person could manage it. Takes someone half-mad, half-genius. It's as good as modern sci-fi, I think. And there are deeper levels of meaning. :detective:

This is only to mention a few points. The Bible is rich with meaning, much richer than a post can do justice to.

Somebody: "So I just got finished reading this book, and oh man it was good."

Other Person: "Yeah? Well what was it about?"

Somebody: "Well, it was like, really good."

Other Person: "Um, in what way was it good?"

Somebody: "You know, in that good way."

Other Person: "Okay, so all you can say is, it was good?"

Somebody: "Well, you know that one thing that is really good? It was like that but better."

@ABYA,

ABYA;168842 wrote:

How to read the bible?

The old testament is written in a language of branch's.
Branch's are words from this world that are used to explain Spitiuality.
There is not one word in the OT that refers to this physical world, . . .

What can really be said about such nonsensical fantasy? The only thing which comes to my mind at the moment, is the question of how on earth can anyone buy such unfounded fabrication?

Well, Krumple, if one ignores the benefits as I had mentioned in my post number 22 (last paragraph), and narrows their view to reading the English rendering of the canon, then maybe one could say that they found some good entertainment in learning about how tribal disputs over sexual misconduct could be settled . . . cutting up a gang-raped woman's body, and tying the various parts to a number of donkeys and having them wander off into the other areas, so as to create a civil war among the loosely consolidated tribes against one particular tribe of whose a few male members had committed the gang rape. So as, when having virtually wiped out the entire tribe, felt sorry for them and thus allowed them to take other women by force as wives...and thus, settle the whole thing and make peace again. Boy them folks did things in 'strange ways.' (not sure if Hollywood could beat that)

@HexHammer,

HexHammer;168907 wrote:

So tell me something useful from the book please.

The bible is only useful if you read it properly which is the reason I started this topic.

One of the greatest useful things that has come from the text is the story of Jesus. I think many people agree how wonderful this story is because it was probably the first story of a merciful God who has the power to forgive anyone.

Just to fathom the idea and to think that someone somewhere came up with the story. Or better yet could there be a God with this trait? That God planned the arrival of Jesus and his story from the beginning?

Basically what I am talking about is the idea that if someone is to slap you in the face that you should turn the other cheek and let them hit you again. To think that this is a more favorable thing for mankind is pretty strange to most. Even when we slap God he turns the other cheek and lets us slap him again. He always forgives. So it is useful for teaching forgiveness.

Of course not everyone can see the story for what it is let alone put the act to practice. At least the story is there. Someone somewhere wrote it down.

@lazymon,

My good Reconstructo

Thanks for making such long and particular answer and explenation, but I can only agree that to you it is useful in an entertaining way, not in a pragmatic way.

1) learning people to steal for selfish gain, goes against everything I'v been taught.

2...) eeeh? Of what greater uses are these stories, other than entertaining and confuse the christians?

Krumple;168929 wrote:

Somebody: "So I just got finished reading this book, and oh man it was good."

Other Person: "Yeah? Well what was it about?"

Somebody: "Well, it was like, really good."

Other Person: "Um, in what way was it good?"

Somebody: "You know, in that good way."

Other Person: "Okay, so all you can say is, it was good?"

Somebody: "Well, you know that one thing that is really good? It was like that but better."

Sadly I have to agree, this is how I precive most christians, infact most people in the world, they have self induced values.

lazymon;168980 wrote:

The bible is only useful if you read it properly which is the reason I started this topic.

Sounds like I have to be naive enough to belive in it's babble.

lazymon;168980 wrote:

One of the greatest useful things that has come from the text is the story of Jesus. I think many people agree how wonderful this story is because it was probably the first story of a merciful God who has the power to forgive anyone.

Yes, he was an hoax, healing the "sick", today's deacons also heal the "sick". Yes forgiveness to a certain extend is good, but forgiving those who abuse our forgiveness is bad, Jesus never fully explained the deeper psycology in forgiveness.

Then God crusify his son, how merciful? And people are stupid/naive enough to say "oh, I can sin all I want, because Jesus took upon my sins, when he was crusifyed" ...yearh, sure is a good and healthy for society to have a bunch of naive psycotics to wreck havock.

lazymon;168980 wrote:

Just to fathom the idea and to think that someone somewhere came up with the story. Or better yet could there be a God with this trait? That God planned the arrival of Jesus and his story from the beginning?

Yes, this is excatly how many are scammed, how demagogues fools lesser people, people are extremely naive and will belive anything they are taught when the teacher are highly esteemed.

lazymon;168980 wrote:

Basically what I am talking about is the idea that if someone is to slap you in the face that you should turn the other cheek and let them hit you again. To think that this is a more favorable thing for mankind is pretty strange to most. Even when we slap God he turns the other cheek and lets us slap him again. He always forgives. So it is useful for teaching forgiveness.

I see the bible filled with a raging god, punishing and exterminating people, seems you really don't know what you are talking about, and have a fixated illusion.

lazymon;168980 wrote:

Of course not everyone can see the story for what it is let alone put the act to practice. At least the story is there. Someone somewhere wrote it down.

Ofcause they can't, because most people are not naive enough, nor stupid enough, specially because it has no practically value for their everyday, and now with all these pedo priests, and pope himself has kept his hand over these pedo's and not solve the problem.

-----------------

Reconstructo and lazymon, I specificly asked for "useful" stuff, not entertaining stuff, that made you awe before all the demagogish stuff that was written.

You should be smart enough to know I was looking for "the samarit" and "the parables of the talents", it is such stuff that actually have some value to the everyday.

@lazymon,

lazymon;166945 wrote:

I have always been taught that when reading the old testament to take certain things too literal. Is it just me or do people actually believe that people back then lived 400 or 900 years old.

Good Morning lazymon. Well it is to me anyway. To answer your question first let me say it depends on how old you truly are, ha! Take an infant for example. The days are extremely long to them and as we age the days seem to become much shorter as can be observed in the statement "My, how time flies", ha! The infant we think that doesn't know much, we feed it with stuff/information/data/food and such as it begins to gain weight the more it consumes. Does that food make it go faster? It is does then it is not a balanced nutritional substance whether it be food for thought or otherwise.

When we were young as to our history as the bible does does express, it could be concluded that our days were much shorter in that there was not that much to consume as it relates to food or knowledge.

We were much more relaxed and had more time and not under as much stress and as a result of that did live a lot longer assuming our days then were as the are now. We can only speculate when 'then' was and how fast the earth did rotate. A lot could have taken place in those billions of years which is also a speculation in our knowing of what time is. Without so much weight the earth could turn faster, couldn't it? It's difficult to imagine how much "stuff" the Earth has gathered in it gravitation pull over it's existence. Time that we speculate as to then could be vastly different than how and what we regard it now; even if it was regarded then at all. We just assume they are the same. Who knows just how protective that shield that protects us now was then and how much it allow to enter this earthly realm?

Remember much of what we think we know was gathered from oral transmission only. Little was actually written down and no individual authors can be accounted for although many claim to be authors. Such Homer and many others. Just a speculation of many orally communicating and us writing down, when we could "write down" reaching a consensus of all that "talk".

What can be concluded by some is that we are going entirely too fast and though we may look on the outside younger as we grow older, we are deteriorating on the inside mentally and physically. I honestly think once we stop speeding mentally in all we do to survive we will loose those burdens that plague us all and the aging process will actually slow down and even begin to reverse itself. There are words that note this process; rejuvenation and regeneration and rebirth and refresh.

In other words don't take anything you read too seriously because we an only speculate and surmise at best as to when then was, ha! And "in the beginning" has many different interpretations. :a-ok:

william

@HexHammer,

HexHammer;169002 wrote:

Reconstructo and lazymon, I specificly asked for "useful" stuff, not entertaining stuff, that made you awe before all the demagogish stuff that was written.

You should be smart enough to know I was looking for "the samarit" and "the parables of the talents", it is such stuff that actually have some value to the everyday.

Oh, there some stuff in proverbs like that. But obviously it's an old library as far as practical modern living goes. Entertainment, yes, but narrative is also a way to discuss reality.

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;169135 wrote:

but narrative is also a way to discuss reality.

Hmmm? Yes? Could you elaborate please?

@lazymon,

The people and problems in the Bible seem all too real and modern to me.
We are IMV still struggling with the same existential problems.
Who are we? Where did we come from? How do we relate to each other, to nature and to the question of god.
It is no accident that Biblical themes are the foundation for so much of western art, music and literature and the source of so much discussion even in the modern day.

@lazymon,

Lazymon wrote

Quote:

Was Abraham a real person? Was Moses the real author of Genesis? Did Moses as the author intend for Kabbalah wisdom to be hidden in its message? Did God secretly place Kabbalah wisdom in Moses writings without him knowing it?

Yes, Abraham was a real person and Moses did write the Torah, the first five books of the Bible.
As for : did Moses intend for the wisdom to be hidden: no.
Originaly the torah was written as one single word, only later being broken up into seperate words and letters. The shapes used are all significant. Vertical lines stand for wisdom or pleasure and horizontal lines for mercy and correction, diagonal and circular lines and dots also have specific meaning. People in those days were more spititual and could grasp this, but egoism has been evolving over time and has now distanced us far away from Nature or the Creator.
Kabbalists can see past, present and future states by studying this code of strokes and dots. for the rest of us, we just read the text and think of something corporeal.

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