Satan

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

alex717
 
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 07:32 pm
It seems that his persona lives on through human's own obsession with pleasure. I think one major detriment to humans, is since we can experience pleasure and use our free will to prolong it, we become infatuated and obsessed. Satan to me, embodies humans obsession with persona's who solely pursue and attain pleasure, which is even more relevant in our society today, with the continuant and emergent idolization of "gangsters" such as Al Capone, Gotti, even modern rap cultured gangsters. So whether Satan is real or not is irrelevant, what he stands for and represents, at least to me, becomes embodied in more prevalent social personalities today, which again, leads to even more problems in having others realize what they are really idolizing in the first place. Just a thought that was on my mind Smile
 
ariciunervos
 
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 07:46 pm
@alex717,
Santa lives through the idolization of rappers and mobsters ? What ?
 
alex717
 
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 07:56 pm
@alex717,
Satan to me, embodies humans obsession with persona's who solely pursue and attain pleasure, such as....
 
ariciunervos
 
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 08:08 pm
@alex717,
Ahhhh satan not santa... right. Solely pursue and attain pleasure you say ? But ... that's what all living things are hardwired to do. Do you wake up in the morning and go to work ? To get money ? To get pleasure by satisfying needs like having food, water, shelter ? (assuming you're male) Do you go out and buy women drinks ? Or maybe pay hookers ? Will you find a mate and procreate if you live in a cardboard box in the subway ?

Every action inadvertently leads to getting pleasured in one way or the other. It's how all living things are hardwired. Avoid pain and suffering, aim for pleasure. It's chemistry, and it's why life has evolved.

Now, about rappers and mobsters ... That's education you're talking about. And I mean the stuff a parent does, not the schoolteacher. I'm sure well educated people don't give a rat's ass about snoop dog or pee diddy, and sure as hell don't "idolize" criminals.
 
alex717
 
Reply Wed 29 Oct, 2008 11:54 pm
@ariciunervos,
ariciunervos wrote:
Ahhhh satan not santa... right. Solely pursue and attain pleasure you say ? But ... that's what all living things are hardwired to do. Do you wake up in the morning and go to work ? To get money ? To get pleasure by satisfying needs like having food, water, shelter ? (assuming you're male) Do you go out and buy women drinks ? Or maybe pay hookers ? Will you find a mate and procreate if you live in a cardboard box in the subway ?

Every action inadvertently leads to getting pleasured in one way or the other. It's how all living things are hardwired. Avoid pain and suffering, aim for pleasure. It's chemistry, and it's why life has evolved.

Now, about rappers and mobsters ... That's education you're talking about. And I mean the stuff a parent does, not the schoolteacher. I'm sure well educated people don't give a rat's ass about snoop dog or pee diddy, and sure as hell don't "idolize" criminals.


your missing the point badly....not to be rude...but i used these examples of people who do not do noble things like go to work to support themselves. These are people who themselves care only about materials and their own wealth, they don't care how they get it and dont put in actual work to get it. They steal, murder, and lie. Well educated people are spa rse in our society anyways, and since i was referring to our culture and society, who cares if the people in desk jobs and armchairs are being moral if a majority of the work force and youth is being groomed by the media to think these sort of goals in life are accepted and even admirable.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 06:41 am
@alex717,
alex717 wrote:
It seems that his persona lives on through human's own obsession with pleasure. I think one major detriment to humans, is since we can experience pleasure and use our free will to prolong it, we become infatuated and obsessed. Satan to me, embodies humans obsession with persona's who solely pursue and attain pleasure, which is even more relevant in our society today, with the continuant and emergent idolization of...


Not a bad postulate.

I think the previous-post's rabble had to do with how we're speaking of "pleasure". We all seek pleasure (for example, I seek the 'pleasure' of being able to sleep tonight), but your clarification "... infatuated and obsessed" helps to place it in context and I think it was sufficiently stated.

But you're right. The "Gods of Men" tend to be things we can get, stuff we can buy and of course power. We drape ourselves in finery to show all "look how awesome I am!", we flaunt our toys to communicate how "successful I am!" and through 'power' we feel a twisted sense of control. This all comes back to how we've disproportionately place too much value on "things", thrills and what we perceive to be prestige. We've devalued humility, knowledge and caring; all in the name of the materialist's god of 'prosperity'.

In the sense that satan could be called "what which spurs the human towards inflicting pain, injustice and loss on others", you bet - I could buy off on that.

Thanks
 
ariciunervos
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 07:01 am
@alex717,
alex717 wrote:
your missing the point badly....not to be rude...but i used these examples of people who do not do noble things like go to work to support themselves.

Rappers compose lyrics and music, make recordings, tours and concerts, isn't that work ?
And criminals, they work to support themselves too. It's not like they wake up daily with money under their pillow. No such thing as a free lunch, right ?

alex717 wrote:
These are people who themselves care only about materials and their own wealth,

When you go to work, assuming you only support yourself, whose wealth do you care more about ? Mine, ariciunervos' ? As you drive to work do you think about working towards world peace ? No ? How about feeding starving children in Cambodia and Somalia ? Didn't think so. You go to work solely for your own paycheck, solely to become more wealthy and have more "materials".

alex717 wrote:
they don't care how they get it and dont put in actual work to get it. They steal, murder, and lie.

They have to put in effort, I'd call that work. Noble? Lawful ? No. But it's still work, pretty stressful work I might add, with the possibility of being jailed. So some people cut corners to get money. Blame the devil !

alex717 wrote:
Well educated people are spa rse in our society anyways,

Blame the devil !!

alex717 wrote:
and since i was referring to our culture and society,

Go America ?

alex717 wrote:
who cares if the people in desk jobs and armchairs are being moral

:sarcastic:

alex717 wrote:

if a majority of the work force and youth is being groomed by the media to think these sort of goals in life are accepted and even admirable.

The media is the devil ! The media is the devil ! We don't have brains to think for ourselves, or parents to tell the youth otherwise. The media has more power than responsible parenting and critical thinking ! Right ? Right ?! Television and newspapers are the devil, they show only violence !! The internet is the devil, it shows only pornography !! Right ? Right ?! We can't fight against it, we are victims, victims I say !!! Right ?!

:a-ok:

P.S. Have I mentioned you should blame the devil and not yourselves ? It's so much easier.
 
ciceronianus
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 08:56 am
@alex717,
For my part, I can't blame evil on Satan (even if he could be shown to exist), nor on the search for pleasure, at least to the extent "pleasure" is related to happiness, as the ancients conceived it. We do evil, we are responsible for it, in most cases, and while society or culture may contribute to it, ultimate responsibility lies with the one who does evil. Epicurean philosophy, though founded on the belief that we should seek pleasure, has a code of conduct which is a model of restraint.
 
alex717
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 12:05 pm
@ciceronianus,
I would say doing whatever you can in your power to gain pleasure even at the expense of others is evil...
 
alex717
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 12:08 pm
@ariciunervos,
ariciunervos wrote:



The media is the devil ! The media is the devil ! We don't have brains to think for ourselves, or parents to tell the youth otherwise. The media has more power than responsible parenting and critical thinking ! Right ? Right ?! Television and newspapers are the devil, they show only violence !! The internet is the devil, it shows only pornography !! Right ? Right ?! We can't fight against it, we are victims, victims I say !!! Right ?!

:a-ok:

P.S. Have I mentioned you should blame the devil and not yourselves ? It's so much easier.


This is more of an attack on a simple idea i posted that you didnt quite understand what i was getting at, instead of understanding the actual idea behind it you just focused on the technicality of my analogies and not the actual image they provide. Take things in the context I provide in the future please, and if your unfamiliar with these characters I cannot blame you. Have a good day
 
Aristoddler
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 03:38 pm
@alex717,
The title of this thread is simply: Satan.

Therefore the topic is Satan...right?

Yet in the OP, you have simply made a statement. In the following posts, you are nearly disallowing any thoughts that are not consistent with your own. It appears as though you are not open to any debate, but instead you are simply demanding that people see things your way and believe what you believe.

Not only is that against what the site is here for...it is in your very own definition: Evil.
 
alex717
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 05:27 pm
@Aristoddler,
"The media is the devil ! The media is the devil ! We don't have brains to think for ourselves, or parents to tell the youth otherwise. The media has more power than responsible parenting and critical thinking ! Right ? Right ?! Television and newspapers are the devil, they show only violence !! The internet is the devil, it shows only pornography !! Right ? Right ?! We can't fight against it, we are victims, victims I say !!! Right ?!"

that is an argument i should accept?! When he is just misunderstanding the OP? Sorry I don't see the reason, no disrespect to you.

"It appears as though you are not open to any debate, but instead you are simply demanding that people see things your way and believe what you believe."

I am demanding to stay in the context of the OP. It wasn't hard to interpret IMO, since another user understood it well, but next time I will be more precise with my OP so there is no confusion and taunting.
 
Aristoddler
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 05:30 pm
@alex717,
The OP was your statement about what you believe evil/satan is.

"The media is x" is what he believes evil/satan is.

No difference in topic, just a difference in the direction.
 
alex717
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 05:38 pm
@Aristoddler,
Aristoddler wrote:
The OP was your statement about what you believe evil/satan is.

"The media is x" is what he believes evil/satan is.

No difference in topic, just a difference in the direction.


he was being sarcastic saying that I stated the media was the devil when I was simply giving reference to how the media allows some people to idolize persona's who solely pursue pleasure at others expenses, from which i would concur is a proper character description of the father of evil, Satan. I was leaving out any religious characteristics of the devil in order to avoid a discussion on whether he exists or not.
 
William
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 05:55 pm
@alex717,
alex717 wrote:
It seems that his persona lives on through human's own obsession with pleasure. I think one major detriment to humans, is since we can experience pleasure and use our free will to prolong it, we become infatuated and obsessed. Satan to me, embodies humans obsession with persona's who solely pursue and attain pleasure, which is even more relevant in our society today, with the continuant and emergent idolization of "gangsters" such as Al Capone, Gotti, even modern rap cultured gangsters. So whether Satan is real or not is irrelevant, what he stands for and represents, at least to me, becomes embodied in more prevalent social personalities today, which again, leads to even more problems in having others realize what they are really idolizing in the first place. Just a thought that was on my mind Smile


Hello Alex,
If you will allow me to comment a little. Man in his perfection will not admit to anything he does as wrong. We are geniuses at finding reasons that justify whatever it is we want to do. Greed, pleasure, condescension, discrimination, racism plus a whole lot of other crap we blame on "satan". It's not our fault. The devil made me do it. Ha.

All of what you mentioned could indeed be construed as "evil" and for all intents and purposes as it relates to the real enjoyment in life, they are detriments. I will agree with your there. The world is in one hell of a mess my friend, but I afraid if you are looking for someone to blame it all on, it is "we". The very first thing you can do if you want to begin to understand what life is about is to turn your television off and never turn it on again. Trash that POS. Ninety percent of what it invades your home with you do not need in your head. It will screw you up, big time. I'm not saying there is not some "good stuff" being aired but the amount of crap you have to sit through is not worth it. Most of what it airs doesn't exist anyway. Provided you live in the good ole' USA. I have no idea of what is broadcasted in other countries. I wish I did.

I know your frustration my friend and when you come right down to it, it all has to do with those phrases we use everyday that start with "self...". Self-reliance, self-esteem, self-assurance, self-righteous, self-made, self-confident, etc., etc., etc., as we desperately seek a place to fit in this reality looking to other's who are also "self-consumed" for direction. The blind leading the blind. What a mess.

We are not consumed with "pleasure", it's the last resort we can turn to, to satisfy or give any meaning to the reality we have created. If you think it is bad now, it is going to get a whole hell of a lot worse before it gets better I'm afraid.

The television is the "TROJAN HORSE" that has invaded our personal world and most are indeed under it's "spell" to the point most have no life as they live vicariously through those who are acting out a role meant keep us from noticing what is really going on. It is appealing to the most primal instinct in man and it is not "just one of those things". Take drugs, television, alcohol, lust and computers out of the scheme of things and you will see a society go stark raving mad. I guarantee it.

As our brilliance continues and technology increases, we strive to discover those "devices" that make us even more lazy and further eliminate the "need" for man as we dig the abyss a little bit deeper in our quest to make the almighty buck. There's not much left to do but make babies and seek pleasure any way one can that will enable a person to "feel" anything until we reach that ultimate hell in which all we can feel is "pain". Some are already there. You don't think people who get tattoo's and piercing's do it because the are overjoyed with their existence, do you? IMO. There's a lot of screaming going on, it's just we are too self-absorbed to hear it.

William
 
ariciunervos
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 07:48 pm
@alex717,
alex717,

In the original post you said :
Quote:
Satan to me, embodies humans obsession with persona's who solely pursue and attain pleasure, which is even more relevant in our society today, with the continuant and emergent idolization of "gangsters" such as Al Capone, Gotti, even modern rap cultured gangster
Satan = obsession, envy, idolization of wrong-doers. And I said proper parenting, teaching of good values, and education are the cure for this "obsession" or idolization.

Then you went on and brought in "media" as the channel by which people get this obsession or envy from, as they are forced to believe what the TV tells them.
Quote:
a majority of the work force and youth is being groomed by the media to think these sort of goals in life are accepted and even admirable.
To which I disagreed (in a somewhat sarcastic manner, i apologize) but it seemed to me you're defaulting (young) people to dumb cows who can't think for themselves, and it's the media who is to blame instead of them or their parents for not thinking critically or not teaching the young how to.


Then you `backed up` a bit, by saying the media just "allows" ...
alex717 wrote:
I was simply giving reference to how the media allows some people to idolize persona's who solely pursue pleasure at others expenses


The media sells whatever sells best. Scandal, sex and violence. It sells best because the majority buys it, watches it, reads or listens to it. But saying the media "grooms [people] to think" in a certain way, you got it all backwards. That's religion's turf. It's the people who dictate, with their dollar, what the media sells. It's a business after all.

So by, let's say, displaying images of "wrong-doers" and their actions, the media allows the young to idolize them ? Should I go back to proper parenting and critical thinking and type all that again ?
 
alex717
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 07:49 pm
@William,
william, i agree with some of where your going, this wasnt my theory on why we are evil, let me correct myself if it seemed like that, just simply an idea on how humans find persona's that solely seek pleasure at other expenses as a kind of goal and eudiamonia (ha ha), thats all, i personally have many theories on human behaivior, culture and social behaivior, and i assure you im not blaming our ego on television stars, i was just making my point sparingly on religious grounds of how many love these personas and how they are reletive to Satan in that they.... you get it now...
 
alex717
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 07:56 pm
@ariciunervos,
ariciunervos wrote:
alex717,

In the original post you said :
Satan = obsession, envy, idolization of wrong-doers. And I said proper parenting, teaching of good values, and education are the cure for this "obsession" or idolization.

Then you went on and brought in "media" as the channel by which people get this obsession or envy from, as they are forced to believe what the TV tells them.
To which I disagreed (in a somewhat sarcastic manner, i apologize) but it seemed to me you're defaulting (young) people to dumb cows who can't think for themselves, and it's the media who is to blame instead of them or their parents for not thinking critically or not teaching the young how to.


Then you `backed up` a bit, by saying the media just "allows" ...


The media sells whatever sells best. Scandal, sex and violence. It sells best because the majority buys it, watches it, reads or listens to it. But saying the media "grooms [people] to think" in a certain way, you got it all backwards. That's religion's turf. It's the people who dictate, with their dollar, what the media sells. It's a business after all.

So by, let's say, displaying images of "wrong-doers" and their actions, the media allows the young to idolize them ? Should I go back to proper parenting and critical thinking and type all that again ?



I don't disagree that proper parenting and young people critical thinking is crucial in helping dictate if they go down the road i was referring to, however i didn't say all kids do this, but some will, regardless, this isn't a epidemic i'm referring to, it was just a simple idea. Satan is prevalent in our culture more in these persona's then actually in some devil who is going to impale you in hell for eternity if you do bad things... the major character role of Satan i chose to use was "solely seeking pleasure (at others expense)" that is how i view satan, i was using him at a metaphor for evil, not the biblical hell raoming tryant, i already apologized and explained this in a pervious post, next time i will post clearer. I accept your apology.
 
ariciunervos
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 08:10 pm
@alex717,
alex717 wrote:
I don't disagree that proper parenting and young people critical thinking is crucial in helping dictate if they go down the road i was referring to, however i didn't say all kids do this, but some will, regardless, this isn't a epidemic i'm referring to, it was just a simple idea. Satan is prevalent in our culture more in these persona's then actually in some devil who is going to impale you in hell for eternity if you do bad things... the major character role of Satan i chose to use was "solely seeking pleasure (at others expense)" that is how i view satan, i was using him at a metaphor for evil, not the biblical hell raoming tryant, i already apologized and explained this in a pervious post, next time i will post clearer. I accept your apology.


Hmm..

So first you say "Satan to me, embodies human's obsession with personas who solely pursue and attain pleasure" and you go ahead and mention "the continuant and emergent idolization of 'gangsters' such as Al Capone, Gotti, even modern rap cultured gangsters."

Then you change your mind. You say it's not the "continuant and emergent idolization" of wrong-doers what Satan is, but the wrong-doers themselves are the embodiment of Satan! "Satan is prevalent in our culture more in these persona's then actually in some devil who is going to impale you in hell [...] the major character role of Satan i chose to use was "solely seeking pleasure (at others expense)".

So what are you getting at ? Are you trying to say criminals are evil ? :whoa-dude:
 
William
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 08:34 pm
@alex717,
alex717 wrote:
william, i agree with some of where your going, this wasnt my theory on why we are evil, let me correct myself if it seemed like that, just simply an idea on how humans find persona's that solely seek pleasure at other expenses as a kind of goal and eudiamonia (ha ha), thats all, i personally have many theories on human behaivior, culture and social behaivior, and i assure you im not blaming our ego on television stars, i was just making my point sparingly on religious grounds of how many love these personas and how they are reletive to Satan in that they.... you get it now...


You're okay here, but I think it is not so much that they "seek" pleasure at the cost of others, in as much as it is a selfish "survival technique" that will give some "meaning" to their own lives. It is really hard for me to think of other's as malicious in their behavior for I understand why. At least I think I do. Every day offers more and more answers for me and more and more am I coming to realizations how innocent most are in what they do and say in order to be "a part" of a world they so want to be a part of. As far as television, I hold by my advice to the letter. It truly does an enormous amount of "programming" that just adds to the confusion. Give it a shot. Find something else better to do with your time. There is nothing in this world more valuable than those interchanges you can have with "real people" if they can tear themselves away from their Plasma addictions. Ha.

Later, my friend
William
 
 

 
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 06/16/2019 at 07:54:44