Homosexuality and the Bible

@Caroline,

Caroline;81737 wrote:

People are born with their sexualty,

If that is a scientific fact please back it up with evidence.

Caroline;81737 wrote:

In my humble opinion, the Bible can be interpreted in so many ways that it's validity as truth is completely irrational.

If you choose to draw that conclusion then you are assuming that there is no truth to find, which seems to me to be a hasty conclusion.

When an author writes a poem, specifically one that at least appears to be open to various interpretations, there are obviously going to be different takes on the meaning of the poem. A literature critic would be a fool to then assume based on the varied interpretations that there is no truth in the poem and that striving for that goal is irrational. Obviously the author does hold the one true interpretation of that poem attempting to study and learn that interpretation is not a fruitless activity as there is truth to be known.

You may wonder, "how can truth be known if the author is not here to comment." Well one answer that I strongly believe in is prayer.

Nonetheless your conclusion is hasty as you presuppose the lack of an absolute truth.

Also I would like to point out that there is not, at least in myself, a hatred toward homosexuals, that would be hypocritical. Homosexuality is like any other sin, wrong, its not the person that commits it that is hated but the sin that they commit. I do not hate homosexuals, I hate the sin they choose to commit just as I hate my sins of anger, lust and all others.

@SJoseph,

Homosexuality is equatable to sodomy. I don't know why it would be considered sinful, but someone wrote it. It doesn't explicitly and absolutely state in the bible what homosexuality means to them. And to the people who think homosexuality is a choice, there is no reason someone would choose it. There are genetic correlations suggesting that certain factors induce homo- or bisexuality. Anyway, with all the social stigma against homosexuality, who would choose to be homosexual?

I don't think god himself would think of being homosexual as a sin, but the act of sodomy to him would be a sin. The people of the time fabricated anything else pertaining to the subject and expressed their views.

@click here,

click here;81842 wrote:

If that is a scientific fact please back it up with evidence.

How do you think people are homosexual if they're not born with it?

---------- Post added 08-08-2009 at 06:46 AM ----------

Leonard;81847 wrote:

Homosexuality is equatable to sodomy. .

Not always.

Leonard;81847 wrote:

I don't think god himself would think of being homosexual as a sin, but the act of sodomy to him would be a sin..

I don't think God cares what goes on behind closed doors as long as it's not harming anybody. Thank you

@Caroline,

I have to be honest i find the thought of certain homosexual acts disturbing and to say otherwise would be lying.i have tried to be less homophobic but without much success,it worries me.
The problem with the bible it judges others in a certain way,it makes sinners of us all.
Us poor secular sinners judge others diferently,if it is done with both parties ,willing and uncoersed, then its their business not ours. However much i detest the act it would not make me dislike the individual or judge him in any way.

@SJoseph,

I don't suppose anyone whose hetrosexual would find homosexuality appealing, you don't have to, just as gays would find being straight unappealing. Alot of gay men do not practise anal sex, you'd be surprised how many don't. My point is xris it is the thought that disturbs you, not them personally, we should not take it out on them, that would be wrong and I believe it would be wrong in God's eyes to be homophobic. (Not you personally xris). Thank you.

@Caroline,

Caroline;81884 wrote:

How do you think people are homosexual if they're not born with it?

They start down a path of experimentation that leads to a created "need". Meaning, they choose homosexuality, homosexuality does not choose them.

Just as a serial killer is not born with the innate desire to kill people. His life, while not excusing his actions, mostly I would assume lead to his choice later in life to pride himself in the murder of others. Maybe as a child he was abused by his father. Do you agree with me that people are not born serial killers? How difficult then is it to believe that people are not born homosexual.

I believe I said it earlier though I'll say it again. I have a lesbian acquaintance whom I once asked if she had any bad experiences with males. She said that she was sexually abused many many times by her uncle and I quote "that is why I will never let another man touch me".

@SJoseph,

I also have friends that have been abused and are still straight. Yes bad experiences with men, especially at a young age and especially really bad experiences would put a woman off men and seek comfort elswhere but what of the ones who have not been abused, I would like to think if I was gay then I would be able to be free to express this, what harm would I be to you if I were?

@Caroline,

Caroline;81980 wrote:

I also have friends that have been abused and are still straight. Yes bad experiences with men, especially at a young age and especially really bad experiences would put a woman off men and seek comfort elswhere but what of the ones who have not been abused, I would like to think if I was gay then I would be able to be free to express this, what harm would I be to you if I were?

I never said that a homosexual is a harm to me. I relate homosexuality to EVERY other sin in the Bible, in that it is also just another sin. Homosexuality is a sin just as jealousy is a sin. The difference I am trying to draw is that homosexuality is excepted as 'ok' but the Bible says otherwise.

Also what makes you assume that homosexuality is a biological trait with out any proof? What would you say if I said, a pedophile is not wrong in his desires of prepubescent humans as it surely is a biological trait. You would say show me the proof that a pedophile is not simply acting on choice alone.

Prove to me that sexual orientation is a biological trait and you'll most likely prove that a pedophile has no choice in his view of little children as sexual pleasures to his/her every fantasy. How about those whom sexually derive pleasure from sexual intercourse with animals? Is that a biological trait as well? If homosexuality IS a biological trait then WHY is pedophilia and bestiality not? Or maybe you are ok with both pedophiles and those whom rape animals....

@SJoseph,

My point isn't how one becomes homosexual, my point is something is only wrong if you're harming someone. All those things you mention apart from practising homosexuality, (between consenting adults), involve the serious harm of others which is what makes them wrong/a sin and sets them apart from homosexuality which isn't harming anybody, not children and certainly not animals!

@Caroline,

Caroline;81992 wrote:

My point isn't how one becomes homosexual, my point is something is only wrong if you're harming someone. All those things you mention apart from practising homosexuality, (between consenting adults), involve the serious harm of others which is what makes them wrong/a sin and sets them apart from homosexuality which isn't harming anybody, not children and certainly not animals!

Fine, though I still am interested as to why you think homosexuality is biological.

Whether or not it 'harms' others is irrelevant, it still is a sin, a sin is not defined by its harm toward others but by what God says.

@SJoseph,

And God wrote the bible himself literally.

@Caroline,

Caroline;81995 wrote:

And God wrote the bible himself literally.

Not in the way you'd hope, but it is the best we've got. Being as the OP was basing his question OFF the Bible I do not see why there is such a big problem for you.

If you do not wish to use the Bible to direct your life then fine, do not do so.

Though the OP is, save your arguments for another thread, as they do not apply directly in this one.

@SJoseph,

I thought the OP was asking why are many things such as homosexuality forgiven and and not others, well because murder and rape harm people and homosexuality doesn't. Thank you

@Caroline,

Caroline;81999 wrote:

I thought the OP was asking why are many things such as homosexuality forgiven and and not others, well because murder and rape harm people and homosexuality doesn't. Thank you

I can't necessarily say I agree with his conclusions on what the OT relationship is to Jesus and the NT. Though he still is attempting to use the Bible to discern what is right and wrong. No where in the OP does he mention homosexuality relating to whether or not it harms anyone. Again, you are bringing in your OWN thoughts and personal opinions.

The OP asked: "Why are many things in the old testament forgiven after the Atonment, but homosexuality wasn't one of those things?"

That is the only question in the OP. You are not answering that question by saying, "Homosexuality does no harm to anyone!!!". Completely irrelevant answer...

I personally have not directly responded to the OP, I only offered a couple of additional thoughts relating to the subject.

I think the OP has it wrong in assuming that from this:

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."

one can then assume that adultery is ok? o_O No no no. Adultery is wrong!!! But the consequences of putting someone to death are NOT in use anymore. Homosexuality is WRONG as listed in the OT, though stoning a homosexual is NOT needed anymore. Deconstructing why that is would take ALOT of text and time that I do not have. I just think the OP has misconstrued the texts.

@SJoseph,

"If that is a scientific fact please back it up with evidence."

With the social stigma against homosexuality, who would choose freely to be homosexual?

"They start down a path of experimentation that leads to a created "need"."
A heterosexual who starts down a path to homosexuality probably wouldn't end up homosexual. Anyway, the risk of ridicule against a homosexual is greater than the need to be homosexual. In the case of a genetic homosexual, they couldn't help it.

I don't see how it's possible to turn a straight man gay. Also, recent studies suggest that the more male children a woman has, the more likely that one will be homosexual. Studies also show that there is a strong correlation between high testosterone levels and homo- or bisexuality. And a man acting feminine does not necessarily suggest that he does not have high levels of testosterone, though that isn't the only cause of homosexuality.

---------- Post added 08-09-2009 at 10:16 PM ----------

Some religions view homosexuality as neutral or positive, such as Buddhism.

@Leonard,

Leonard;82214 wrote:

"If that is a scientific fact please back it up with evidence."

With the social stigma against homosexuality, who would choose freely to be homosexual?

Sorry buddy that doesn't work. Watch me: With the social stigma against pedophilia, who would choose freely to be a pedophiliac?

Using your style of argument, I have just proved that pedophilia must be a biological trait. How dare you hate on someone who has sexual relations with 6 year olds! They don't have a choice in the matter! Be accepting!

Leonard;82214 wrote:

"They start down a path of experimentation that leads to a created "need"."
A heterosexual who starts down a path to homosexuality probably wouldn't end up homosexual. Anyway, the risk of ridicule against a homosexual is greater than the need to be homosexual. In the case of a genetic homosexual, they couldn't help it.

I don't see how it's possible to turn a straight man gay. Also, recent studies suggest that the more male children a woman has, the more likely that one will be homosexual. Studies also show that there is a strong correlation between high testosterone levels and homo- or bisexuality. And a man acting feminine does not necessarily suggest that he does not have high levels of testosterone, though that isn't the only cause of homosexuality.

Some religions view homosexuality as neutral or positive, such as Buddhism.

Start by offering proof that homosexuality is a genetic trait. In your next post please cite multiple scientific websites written by credible scientists that have found the "gay gene".

@click here,

click here;82001 wrote:

I think the OP has it wrong in assuming that from this:

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."

one can then assume that adultery is ok? o_O No no no. Adultery is wrong!!! But the consequences of putting someone to death are NOT in use anymore. Homosexuality is WRONG as listed in the OT, though stoning a homosexual is NOT needed anymore. Deconstructing why that is would take ALOT of text and time that I do not have. I just think the OP has misconstrued the texts.

I just curious, should christians consider women to be "unclean" when they're having their periods? Should I sacrifice an animal after given birth? What would happen if I brought a bull to the church an said to the preast "don't forget to sprinkle blood seven times". Oh, no I forgot, we don't sacrifice anymore, because Jesus thought it was more important to not have any bussines with selling sacrifice animals in the church. Well, if Jesus hang out with homosexuals, and always went on about how important love is, can't we just look past that one place in the in the Bible?

click here;82226 wrote:

Sorry buddy that doesn't work. Watch me: With the social stigma against pedophilia, who would choose freely to be a pedophiliac?

Using your style of argument, I have just proved that pedophilia must be a biological trait. How dare you hate on someone who has sexual relations with 6 year olds! They don't have a choice in the matter! Be accepting!

We can't be accepting when a child get's hurt. I kind of feel sorry for pedophiliacs, but it's not love for them it's lust. We can, control our lust if we have to. And an adult isn't equal with a child. And that's why pedophiles go to jail. But if we should trust in the Holy book the answer might be different, I don't remember. But homosexuals shouldn't have to "control" themselves, there's simply no need to, they love and lust. Love is one of the great thing left on this planet, why take it away from some people. As my science teacher kept repeting: if it doesn't hurt anyone, how can love ever be wrong? I think that if we had asked Jesus to clearify, he would probably had said the same.

@Lily,

How can you compare two consulting adults with a child molester,beyond comprehension..:perplexed:

@Lily,

Lily;82258 wrote:

I just curious, should christians consider women to be "unclean" when they're having their periods? Should I sacrifice an animal after given birth? What would happen if I brought a bull to the church an said to the preast "don't forget to sprinkle blood seven times". Oh, no I forgot, we don't sacrifice anymore, because Jesus thought it was more important to not have any bussiness with selling sacrifice animals in the church.

No... That is not why.

Lily;82258 wrote:

We can't be accepting when a child get's hurt. I kind of feel sorry for pedophiliacs, but it's not love for them it's lust. We can, control our lust if we have to. And an adult isn't equal with a child. And that's why pedophiles go to jail. But if we should trust in the Holy book the answer might be different, I don't remember. But homosexuals shouldn't have to "control" themselves, there's simply no need to, they love and lust. Love is one of the great thing left on this planet, why take it away from some people. As my science teacher kept repeting: if it doesn't hurt anyone, how can love ever be wrong? I think that if we had asked Jesus to clearify, he would probably had said the same.

O rly? A pedophile is just lusting while a homosexual is loving? Do you have any shred of scientific evidence to back that up? If so then provide the research on homosexuals and pedophiles.

---------- Post added 08-10-2009 at 07:45 AM ----------

xris;82262 wrote:

How can you compare two consenting adults with a child molester,beyond comprehension..:perplexed:

I think its pretty obvious how I compare them, I just showed you in an earlier post.

@click here,

click here;82272 wrote:

No... That is not why.

Please tell me why then, why, oh why, can we freely choose what to belive from the old testament?? In Leviticus it's said that homosexuality is wrong (just a fun fact, it's said that hot man to man action is wrong, it doesn't mention lesbians at all), next chapter tells you how sacrifice correctly, how do you exlpain that?

click here;82272 wrote:

O rly? A pedophile is just lusting while a homosexual is loving? Do you have any shred of scientific evidence to back that up? If so then provide the research on homosexuals and pedophiles.

Okey, you got me! I'm not a pedophile, so I can't know how they feel. But I do know that it is wrong to hurt anyone. Jesus agrees with that. And I do know that homosexual are loving, and if you can't see that I only feel sorry for you. They don't hurt eachother.

click here;82272 wrote:

I think its pretty obvious how I compare them, I just showed you in an earlier post.

Have you ever been in love. It's kind of great, isn't it? Comparing that with a childs pain and cry is pretty stupid, IMO.

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