My profound problem with TV Evangelists

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Reply Fri 27 Mar, 2009 06:14 am
[CENTER][CENTER]EXCLUSIVE CULTISM BELIEFS BY ALAN
Also TV Evangelists
[/CENTER]
[/CENTER]

This article was born out of 30 years of having to listen to the nonsense put forth by what religious exclusive cults of which there are many. I have recently joined a forum of people who like me who hate this type of dogmatic exclusiveness


To my joy I found that there were open-minded friendly non-exclusive forums on the Internet, who believed my story, welcoming me into their group with a non-judgemental attitude.



.
I am appalled at the utmost depths of continual nonsense the faith doctrine and other cultic preachers plunge, in an attempt to glorify and exalt mortal man to the level of god, who have the ability to obtain and manipulate anything, for their own selfish purposes.

They also claim that if we do not believe exactly as they do and join them we are doomed to a lost eternity or hell- fire torment forever. How can one ever reconcile this with a God of love?

Their false god must be evil.

"Mere mortal man cannot manipulate God".

These TV preachers believe and claim that they are little gods, and can, therefore, emulate the almighty in his creative work, and bring about any wealth, prosperity or health to themselves by applying so-called non-existent divine spiritual laws.

They also say that the omnipresent divine principal of existence, GOD, is a humanoid like demigod (2m tall & approx. 100kg) who lives on a remote planet somewhere in the universe. Thus they attempt to make GOD into their own image, and not the other way around.

In deep profound frustration I would like to ask them what use would an Omni- god, who is a SPIRIT, have for a body containing eyes, arms, legs?

Our human physical bodies are designed and programmed for survival on planet earth


These shouting screaming TV faith movements, these misguiding preachers would have us believe that faith is an impersonal, force, something like electricity that can be manipulated and utilized for our / their own selfish benefits, to bring about any type of miracle or wealth they desire.

They think they can twist the arm of god and manipulate him by using this force.

The push a person so hard that they have to fall over and then shout God has blessed them by making the comatose
.
True faith is simple loving "trust" in a loving higher reality, the cosmic mind we call God, whom, will answer strictly according to sovereign will.


I get very irritated when I hear preachers pontificating about GOD'S character, mind and attributes as well as his infinite attributes (Of which they know almost nothing, just like the rest of us).


They say GOD is this, "does these", "does that" "will do that" "if you do this", and so on and so on. Sadly in real life it simply does not work like that

How can a mere human ever possibly know how an infinitely intelligent Being like GOD will or will not operate?



These cultic preachers, by their own words try to reduce the infinite Omni-capable GOD, who with all his vast resources, to the most colossal failure of existence.

Claiming that throughout his entire infinite vast universe, he is only able to get through to them and redeem their pathetic few puny minute numbers to himself.

So why bring this topic up for debate,many of these men-of-god becomes crooks


Thirty five years ago I became a member of a fundamental Christian peristaltic church. I believed with all my mind, soul might and being that at last I had found a path to truth and a way to please God


Then something that I simply could not reconcile happened, the Pastor who I trusted as a true man of God was found using church money for fraudulent purposes.


To find my perceived truth had become a lie effected me so badly that I ended up in hospital deeply traumatised


Does the forum have any comments on this increasing world wide money making phenomenon



Are there no real moral ethical people left, and where should we look for them?


Not in a church? I think!
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 27 Mar, 2009 01:19 pm
@Alan McDougall,
When mormons and scientologists become acceptable the rest is inevitable.Im just thankful here in the Uk we have not the extremes you seem to be plagued with.So many Americans appear to be susceptible to any god that wanders into their parlour.I think you should check the water supplies.Sorry your in SA, is it the same there oh dear..
 
Fido
 
Reply Fri 27 Mar, 2009 02:13 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Any God that wanders in is good enough for me...It is the one that lets himself be turned into a consumer good, or a political pawn that earns all my disrespect... We don't have parlors here... Most of us don't have much of space or time...We don't park at red lights, or drive slow in traffic...We even eat in the hoppper to save time for the company...
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 27 Mar, 2009 02:25 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
Any God that wanders in is good enough for me...It is the one that lets himself be turned into a consumer good, or a political pawn that earns all my disrespect... We don't have parlors here... Most of us don't have much of space or time...We don't park at red lights, or drive slow in traffic...We even eat in the hoppper to save time for the company...
Dont be silly every american has a parlour, its the eternal image like pumpkin pie..dont, i beg ruin the image..
 
Fido
 
Reply Fri 27 Mar, 2009 03:34 pm
@Alan McDougall,
I take it as my responsibility, self appointed, to dispell mistaken beliefs about us to us, or to anyone who asks... We are not better or worse than others...We do hold fast to a lot of worthless notions..
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 27 Mar, 2009 04:06 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
I take it as my responsibility, self appointed, to dispell mistaken beliefs about us to us, or to anyone who asks... We are not better or worse than others...We do hold fast to a lot of worthless notions..
So earthling have you got a parlour or even a parlor..Your parlor spells you out as a palorer rather than a kitchiner..My Victorian grandmother had a parlour strangely enough..
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 27 Mar, 2009 05:11 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Re:AM I could see money makers posing as holy men popping up everywhere in the Sates in the earlt 80's. It is a fundementally wrong ting to do as youre taking advantage of trusting people who ask questions about life after death and things like that and when some find the answers in religion it is down right wrong to come in and make money off of it and deceive people-(which has no honour in it), they only get what they desrve, (the criminals), if not more.I think something should be done in order to prevent it from hapening in the first placeie crims' posing as priests etc by somthing like monitoring.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2009 01:31 pm
@Caroline,
Hi Caroline and others


Quote:
Re:AM I could see money makers posing as holy men popping up everywhere in the Sates in the earlt 80's. It is a fundementally wrong ting to do as youre taking advantage of trusting people who ask questions about life after death and things like that and when some find the answers in religion it is down right wrong to come in and make money off of it and deceive people-(which has no honour in it), they only get what they desrve, (the criminals), if not more.I think something should be done in order to prevent it from hapening in the first placeie crims' posing as priests etc by somthing like monitoring.


This disgusting fraud done in the name of God is not only a American phenomenon, is is now a world phenomenon, but most of it exported from the USA

And beside that there is there is a Christian fundamental TV station that beams out the the world and broadcasts 24/7

If people are gullible to be drawn into this sort of nonsense, that is their problem, but what really really angers me, is this money grabbing hypnotic influence, (driven by guilt) of poor or people, who need all their hard got money to survive

These preachers shout at the TV monitors, give God a thousand Dollars and God will compensate you like wise at least a hundred times

Why don't these very rich evangelists reverse this logic and spread their huge wealth to their needy congregations, heck they will soon by richer than Bill Gates

I have no problem with people believing in God,but twisting the truth for what is really theft makes my stomach churn
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2009 03:17 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
Hi Caroline and others




This disgusting fraud done in the name of God is not only a American phenomenon, is is now a world phenomenon, but most of it exported from the USA

And beside that there is there is a Christian fundamental TV station that beams out the the world and broadcasts 24/7

If people are gullible to be drawn into this sort of nonsense, that is their problem, but what really really angers me, is this money grabbing hypnotic influence, (driven by guilt) of poor or people, who need all their hard got money to survive

These preachers shout at the TV monitors, give God a thousand Dollars and God will compensate you like wise at least a hundred times

Why don't these very rich evangelists reverse this logic and spread their huge wealth to their needy congregations, heck they will soon by richer than Bill Gates

I have no problem with people believing in God,but twisting the truth for what is really theft makes my stomach churn

Re:AM
Hi AM, yes i know, that used to anger me too-people handing over there hard earned cash to what i call bascially con artists. I have worked with people too who used to work hard and give their money to the church but she too was very money orientated so her particular case didn't bother me? Since then as long as it doesn't affect me than that's their problem if they couldnt see it if they they were told it was a con but for the people who had no idea it is wrong and it is sad that these people take advantage of people, there should be a board, (like other professions), that it is should be made manditry for people, (in that profession,ie,religion), should sign up to than regulations would take place but there wouldnt be much posers left would there which isn't such a bad thing!Smile PS i cant spell for my life
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2009 03:22 pm
@Alan McDougall,
And yes it was easy to predict that it would spread.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Sun 29 Mar, 2009 04:25 am
@Caroline,
Caroline,

The reason why I am so very angry ,is when I think about it, this dishonesty is that it is being done in a place of worship, a place where Almighty God is supposed to be reverenced. A supposed sanctuary of honesty

The bible says "God owns the cattle on a thousand hills" This just means God is infinitely rich

So surely all this constant begging in church is unnecessary. It is more expensive now to go to church than to see a good movie. The money bag under my nose offends me, does it do the same to others?

It should be a place where one can escape from the depravity and dishonesty of the world all around us.

I am the type of person who is not easily moved out of my comfort zone in life, but if once I commit myself to what I presume is logical and true I do it with my whole being.

I did this years ago and to my horror I found dishonesty flourishing in a place that I thought was absolutely sacred

It was impossible for me to reconcile, and I ended up in obsessive loop type thinking that ultimate lead to server mental illness and hospitalisation

So I switched from a committed believer, into a very angry atheist

Lately I have began to mull about all this in my mind and thus the thread about this
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sun 29 Mar, 2009 06:14 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
Caroline,

The reason why I am so very angry ,is when I think about it, this dishonesty is that it is being done in a place of worship, a place where Almighty God is supposed to be reverenced. A supposed sanctuary of honesty

The bible says "God owns the cattle on a thousand hills" This just means God is infinitely rich

So surely all this constant begging in church is unnecessary. It is more expensive now to go to church than to see a good movie. The money bag under my nose offends me, does it do the same to others?

It should be a place where one can escape from the depravity and dishonesty of the world all around us.

I am the type of person who is not easily moved out of my comfort zone in life, but if once I commit myself to what I presume is logical and true I do it with my whole being.

I did this years ago and to my horror I found dishonesty flourishing in a place that I thought was absolutely sacred

It was impossible for me to reconcile, and I ended up in obsessive loop type thinking that ultimate lead to server mental illness and hospitalisation

So I switched from a committed believer, into a very angry atheist

Lately I have began to mull about all this in my mind and thus the thread about this

Hi Alan, Im very sorry to hear what happened to you i cnat believe the damaged its called, i knew it, its so wrong, when i first saw them popping up i was angry too and i guess it was because of all the things you've mentioned-how deceitful and down right wrong to take money from people, i guess i was angry because i knew the consequences such as what happened to you and that just makes me angry all over again now after listening to what happened to you, you are right about what religion should be. I am glad that your'e ok now because they didn't win. If you look back over the centuries there is the same line deceit throught religion-churches laden with gold when their people are starving, that's just wrong so wrong. You know, that's what i always said when voicing my detest for them that they rob the poor and they always have and always will until something is done to stop them.
Look after yourself:)
 
Fido
 
Reply Sun 29 Mar, 2009 06:55 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
Caroline,

The reason why I am so very angry ,is when I think about it, this dishonesty is that it is being done in a place of worship, a place where Almighty God is supposed to be reverenced. A supposed sanctuary of honesty

The bible says "God owns the cattle on a thousand hills" This just means God is infinitely rich

So surely all this constant begging in church is unnecessary. It is more expensive now to go to church than to see a good movie. The money bag under my nose offends me, does it do the same to others?

It should be a place where one can escape from the depravity and dishonesty of the world all around us.

I am the type of person who is not easily moved out of my comfort zone in life, but if once I commit myself to what I presume is logical and true I do it with my whole being.

I did this years ago and to my horror I found dishonesty flourishing in a place that I thought was absolutely sacred

It was impossible for me to reconcile, and I ended up in obsessive loop type thinking that ultimate lead to server mental illness and hospitalisation

So I switched from a committed believer, into a very angry atheist

Lately I have began to mull about all this in my mind and thus the thread about this

I think you are taking this way too seriously...Either God dose not care, or mind; or cannot do anything about it.. Why should you be offened if God is not??? Why should you try to correct what God cannot correct??? Rather, correct yourself, and correct your society... Our society allows freedom of religion, but it is not free of religious influence, so that, If they can hook or crook all the money out of some old folks, they have the protection of law that law does not afford to the people...If it was my society, I would say people have the right to do as they please so long as no harm comes to another... But anyone forming any sort of corporation, as most religious institutions are, would have to keep open books and records so they could always prove they were not acting contrary to a pure public purpose....We have one union and one government, and it is supposed to be acting for individual freedom...What church holds that as a goal??? Freedom is what each abandons at the door...Then they want to see all freedom abandoned...It is not the freedom of masters they want to see gone, and it is not the freedom of preachers they wish to see gone.. They want individual freedom, which is the same freedom all people accept God with done away with... It is a mystery... And only understandable if one considers that organized religion has abandoned God with freedom...We must make the argument that there are no free people who are not at once moral, nor any moral people who are not free...One is good as a choice because goodness requires we act contrary to our individual desires...This willing sacrifice is one made out of choice, and freedom, and is essential to freedom, which is defended by society...The televangelists and the institutionally religious use the freedom of the people, the freedom the people pay for, to attack and abuse all freedom...
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sun 29 Mar, 2009 06:58 am
@Alan McDougall,
I think that it is not god who permits these con-artists and it should not affect your beliefs of what god truly means to you
 
Fido
 
Reply Sun 29 Mar, 2009 07:50 am
@Alan McDougall,
The original meaning of heresy is choice, a selection... I think individual religion, and even combination of people for a shared religious purpose is fine... For them to have extra rights paid for by individual believers is a big mistake... Say freedom of speech is shared by all... Does that give anyone the right to say nonnsense to a person if they are suffering some guilt or diminished capacity if it results in their saving being taken from them... It is possible to take people for all they own, and lay their support entirely upon their children and the whole society... It is their children and society who have first claim, that give people the wherewithall to have what they have... And it is an abrogation of society's responsibility to itself and to the old, to treat mental illness and loneliness as a mental illness is, a public problem demanding protection

...Society is breaking down on many levels, and this is just one example of many.... But we must abandon our old to seek work, and they are left to stew in their fears of tomorrow with no better company that the televangelists who seem to be talking to them, and praying for them, and making them seem like some body when no one else does.... We must realize how foreign is this situation to mankind; not only for having television, but to see families so fractured....The theory of the individual has reached the ultimate point of making all individuals victims, and breaking up families so there is no common guard or mutual support, so that wealth is robbed from the poor, the young, and the old without remorse, and those not directly injured have no recourse but to watch... Look at our immigrants... Their families are complete... The old watch, and educate the young and the young give the old purpose, company, and keep them busy... And those in the middle, in the prime years of life support all until they change places with the old...In this fashion the wealth of many generation is preserved, and the cultures transmitted whole to a new generation... The family, like society, should be a living organic unit, and not so many scattered pieces living in futility...
 
xris
 
Reply Sun 29 Mar, 2009 07:59 am
@Fido,
What faith has authority and every faith can be divisive. The law should protect the obviously vulnerable but those who follow these preachers are they vulnerable in the legal sense? that is the question.If my wife suddenly became a christian it would strain our relationship let alone one of these cranky evangelists.
 
charles brough
 
Reply Sun 29 Mar, 2009 09:20 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
When mormons and scientologists become acceptable the rest is inevitable.Im just thankful here in the Uk we have not the extremes you seem to be plagued with.So many Americans appear to be susceptible to any god that wanders into their parlour.I think you should check the water supplies.Sorry your in SA, is it the same there oh dear..


Yes, America is distinct that way. There is a powerful block of voters mostly in the Southern and Midwestern states who believe the Bible is "the inerrant Word of God." Some "speak in tongues" and some even "play with snakes!" They are found mostly in the Baptist, Pentacostal and Evangelical churches.

The sad thing is that their church parking lots are filled on Sundays whereas the mainline churches' parking lots are almost empty.

And it is no joke! They have a profound effect on public opinion that has been growing since about 1970. So far, the Bush Administration best exemplifies the worst in this ominous trend, this growth of religious reaction here in response to the wildly chaotic and radical Hippy era.

It is an endless over-compensation. I fear for the future!
 
Elmud
 
Reply Sun 29 Mar, 2009 07:18 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
[CENTER][CENTER]EXCLUSIVE CULTISM BELIEFS BY ALAN
Also TV Evangelists
[/CENTER]
[/CENTER]

This article was born out of 30 years of having to listen to the nonsense put forth by what religious exclusive cults of which there are many. I have recently joined a forum of people who like me who hate this type of dogmatic exclusiveness..........

And yet, by making sweeping generalizations, we imply an absolute reality of something which, is not an absolute at all. There are few absolutes. I'm absolutely sure of that.

I'm reminded of one televangelist in particular, who is responsible for hospitals in the Sudan and other third world countries. Not only providing health care, but also providing the basic needs of the people, such as food, clothing etc. Another one I am reminded of, is involved in not only drilling wells for fresh water in Some African nations, but also teaching the locals how to drill wells for fresh water. For their consumption , and farming as well.

So, "myself included", we must always remember to try and make an accurate analysis of something before we imply a broad based view. In short, I remind myself often, to be careful when calling the" bitter sweet, and the sweet bitter."

Just thought I'd throw that one in.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Mon 30 Mar, 2009 12:44 pm
@Elmud,
Elmud
Quote:

I'm reminded of one televangelist in particular, who is responsible for hospitals in the Sudan and other third world countries. Not only providing health care, but also providing the basic needs of the people, such as food, clothing etc. Another one I am reminded of, is involved in not only drilling wells for fresh water in Some African nations, but also teaching the locals how to drill wells for fresh water. For their consumption , and farming as well.


I am aware of that case, but good work like that is not always remembered by the public, what really gets media attention is the frauds and unfortunately they are all are painted with the same stripes of suspicion

One does not expect an altruist to be in the company of thieves

The only time Jesus really became angry was when he found this money laundering in the temple

"This is my fathers house and you have turned it into a den of thieves"

Does this not still apply in many churches organisations today?. I am not generalising there are loving wonderful people who love God and attend church

A one word explanation of what happened to my faith is, I became completely disillusioned
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 30 Mar, 2009 01:08 pm
@Elmud,
Elmud wrote:
And yet, by making sweeping generalizations, we imply an absolute reality of something which, is not an absolute at all. There are few absolutes. I'm absolutely sure of that.

I'm reminded of one televangelist in particular, who is responsible for hospitals in the Sudan and other third world countries. Not only providing health care, but also providing the basic needs of the people, such as food, clothing etc. Another one I am reminded of, is involved in not only drilling wells for fresh water in Some African nations, but also teaching the locals how to drill wells for fresh water. For their consumption , and farming as well.

So, "myself included", we must always remember to try and make an accurate analysis of something before we imply a broad based view. In short, I remind myself often, to be careful when calling the" bitter sweet, and the sweet bitter."

Just thought I'd throw that one in.
Well you will have to remind me which ones and how much was for publicity and how much was for christian morality..I'm always the sceptic when it comes to loud mouthed evangelists..
 
 

 
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