Well, Jesus was a Jew, of course, and I think it's clear that his teachings were primarily Jewish teachings. According to the accounts we have, he claimed to be fulfilling "the law" and he regularly quoted the OT, and treated it as holy scripture. He presents his teachings as the essence of true Judaism, in reaction against the corrupt form being practiced and taught by the "scribes and Pharisees."

In fact, one might well argue that Christianity, properly understood, is a sect within Judaism; Christianity, popularly practiced, is a heresy sprung from Judaism.

But to tie back to the theme, a lot of us both within Judaism and within Christianity, would say that the Yahweh of Numbers chap. 31 is not the object of our faith.

So are you a jew or christian and what separates you one from the other..

But I do not believe that the warfaring god of the ancient Hebrews, as depicted in Numbers chapter 31, is the same entity that Jesus was referring to when he said, "Love God..."

I don't adhere to any institutions, but I accept as a guiding principle for my life, the central message of Jesus, "Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself." I also accept as guiding principles many things I find in the OT, the book of Proverbs, for example, which explicitly commends knowledge and learning and the development of our reasoning powers. I also accept as guiding principles whatever truth I discover in any other religious tradition, such as Buddhism or Native American insights, or philosophy, such as the writings of Plato, or natural phenomena, such as the marvels of this living planet.

So maybe I am a Christian and a Jew and a Buddhist and a Platonist, etc., etc.

But I do not believe that the warfaring god of the ancient Hebrews, as depicted in Numbers chapter 31, is the same entity that Jesus was referring to when he said, "Love God..."

Even though Jesus could not have known this, they may not be the same God. I'm not sure how the timeline breaks down, but the Israelites were worshiping El (a relatively peaceful deity, the God who shares a meal with Abraham) until Moses brought Yahweh (a war god, the one who destroys the Egyptian army) north. Over time, these once distinct deities merged into the One God of the Jews.

Jesus says something interesting in order to address the apparent contradiction between the wrathful OT God, and the compassionate faith taught by Jesus. Matthew 22:34-40:
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
37 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'[d] 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'[e] 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

So a jew is a christian and a christian a jew there is nothing of difference between them. Christ need not have arrived his message was already with us?

Maybe this should be a new thread or threads. 1. What was the message of Jesus? 2. Was he trying to start a new religion, or was he just trying to bring a deeper understanding within an existing religion? 3. Did Jesus really say anything new?

I don't know. Maybe it's all one theme.

What else do you exclude Elijah killing the children by jehovas power by the bears that ate them..Pick and mix ,pick and mix..

So turning ones cheek or an eye for an eye is compatible in your opinion.

What's wrong with picking and mixing? The Jews did it. Jesus did it. The apostles did it. The church fathers did it. Every Christian I have ever met in every denomination does it.

Surely you don't mean to imply that you refrain from it?

We agree to disagree and hopefully come nearer collectively to the truth.

Although this thread is about Numbers 31 Jesus has entered the topic and I believe he was the most influential significant person in all of human history

Im not in the habit of believing scriptures written by man in the hope it will reveal a god of my choosing...Picking and mixing is the habit of those who want their god to behave in certain way, have their model imposed by the selection process.

What else do you exclude Elijah killing the children by jehovas power by the bears that ate them..Pick and mix ,pick and mix..

Dichanthelium - Caution, my friend. The spiritual life is not a trip to the super market. You get close to an important point, though: not everyone understands every passage of scripture. I certainly do not. But, as I think you would agree, the fact that we humans are not omnipotent is no stain on our faith tradition.

10-4. Poor analogy. Careful interpretation of canonical writings, realizing multiple authorship and complex historical contexts, is quite different from picking and choosing which books or passages you give credence to.

Is that your point?

Well you may kid yourself your being theologicaly superior but you both seem hell bent on excluding anything that may disturb your opinion on your conceived god. If for personal reasons you can deny certain scriptures why cant you deny the whole lot as i have done.How much of it is from god or from man ,if they are holy scriptures do you think your god would allow this to happen. How do decide whats from god, whats from man?

xris, I certainly appreciate your enthusiam and candor. I will try to take your points one at a time, and give you a courteous reply, and then, I will ask you to continue in the same vein. Fair enough?

But, just so I know where you are "coming from," what do you know about the Bible? If someone were to ask you, "What is the Bible?" how would you respond?

But, just so I know where you are "coming from," what do you know about the Bible? If someone were to ask you, "What is the Bible?" how would you respond?