An Interesting Take on the Sounds of Falling Trees.

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Caroline
 
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 06:58 am
@DasTrnegras,
"In closing. As we are constantly looking for ways to reducing our consumption of imported crude oil, and wish to see our auto industry survive, why isn't the government opening their "cold case" files on the turbine engine to see if in fact the last generation engine developed by Chrysler engineers can be modified to comply with our latest Air Quality Standards?" from Death of Chrysler’s turbine powered car. Auto industry/EPA conspiracy? | Orange Juice! Politics For The Rest Of Us. 11 pg. first page.

---------- Post added 07-12-2009 at 08:03 AM ----------

No there are not many cars in production that can use greener fuels but we are still producing cars run on petrol so why aren't we producing greener cars instead? Because it's not in the interest of the stock holders.
 
xris
 
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 07:12 am
@Caroline,
Who knows Caroline? why is it we cant produce a reasonably priced average electric car now? I dont think there is enough incentive, it wont really hit home till its too damned late.
I looked at electric cars and they are expensive toys, not one that can even compare to say a Nissan micra in price or performance.Its not like a micra is top of the range.As you say why continually invest in a dying industry?why oh why dont the us government put its money where it matters.
 
DasTrnegras
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 12:49 pm
@DasTrnegras,
You guys took my thread way too seriously. No, you are just too serious. Cutting down trees is important. But, my original thread was about something a little different...a lot different than from what you have hijacked it too.

it's interesting too, though, so I'll let it slide.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 01:26 pm
@DasTrnegras,
DasTränegras;77055 wrote:
You guys took my thread way too seriously. No, you are just too serious. Cutting down trees is important. But, my original thread was about something a little different...a lot different than from what you have hijacked it too.

it's interesting too, though, so I'll let it slide.
Lets be serious ive not heard so many trees fall on one forum in all my years.A whole forest of trees have fallen ,at the moment we have two and im not even allowed to hear that silent crunch as it crashes through the undergrowth.Why is it always a bleeding tree?
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 01:45 pm
@DasTrnegras,
In all honesty, if you don't understand the engineering, you can't make a claim about the technology, you're just taking a reporter's word (or worse, a politician's).

It would take a mathematically inclined person hundreds of hours of research to really be on top of the bulk of the environmental claims and issues. Most 'environmentalists' don't even know what a derivative is, much less understand how to tell if the mathematical modeling of a geological event is very accurate or if the premises presented in a scientific argument are totally sound.

If you don't have to arithmetical breakdown for the amount of coal that needs to be burned (and the production and shipping for the coal, it goes by train and is still occasionally blasted out of mountains against regulation) to produce the electricity for the Prius, you don't know that the Prius is efficient. None of the electric cars that I have seen are really anything more than a quick fix.

The two best alternative fuel sources are nuclear (which people are scared out of their wits of because they don't fully understand the reasons behind the Chernobyl and Three Mile Island disasters and why they probably would not occur today now that we have better technology and computer monitoring) and natural gas (beats me, more viable than wind more efficient than gas). if you like wind maybe you could deal with the energy storage and transportation, not to mention the number of windmills you would need (and the not in my backyard guys). Add on the

Both are temporary, but the same is true of anything else we have. Cold fusion hasn't made great progress =(. There are a number of semi developed ideas with questionable efficiency, but they aren't really up on the table since even once they are developed they need to get through the political process and gain popular support.

Typical conversation with global warming drone:

Q: Do you understand the geophysics behind the claims for and against global warming?

A:No.

Q: Do you keep up with developments in data and current scientific papers relating to the subject?

A:No.

Q:Where do you get your information?

A:The Serra Club

Q:Oh Dear.

The fact of the matter is that 99% of 'the environmentally concerned public' don't really know anything about the topic beyond the political quick answers and stock refutations for detractors, so the whole thing becomes another way for people like Obama to gain power and throw around some lip service and political quick fixes. Bush had jingoism, Obama has 'I'm green and so are you, unless you want to be put in the same box with Bill O'reiley and Glenn Beck.'

Its all just a big jumbled political mess now. The science couldn't matter less to the average moron at some mega concert the put on for 'environmental awareness' or some hemp laden student who is looking for 'peace with mother Earth, and goodwill for all' that can't add three digit numbers.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 02:25 pm
@Zetetic11235,
Zetetic11235;77064 wrote:
In all honesty, if you don't understand the engineering, you can't make a claim about the technology, you're just taking a reporter's word (or worse, a politician's).

It would take a mathematically inclined person hundreds of hours of research to really be on top of the bulk of the environmental claims and issues. Most 'environmentalists' don't even know what a derivative is, much less understand how to tell if the mathematical modeling of a geological event is very accurate or if the premises presented in a scientific argument are totally sound.

If you don't have to arithmetical breakdown for the amount of coal that needs to be burned (and the production and shipping for the coal, it goes by train and is still occasionally blasted out of mountains against regulation) to produce the electricity for the Prius, you don't know that the Prius is efficient. None of the electric cars that I have seen are really anything more than a quick fix.

The two best alternative fuel sources are nuclear (which people are scared out of their wits of because they don't fully understand the reasons behind the Chernobyl and Three Mile Island disasters and why they probably would not occur today now that we have better technology and computer monitoring) and natural gas (beats me, more viable than wind more efficient than gas). if you like wind maybe you could deal with the energy storage and transportation, not to mention the number of windmills you would need (and the not in my backyard guys). Add on the

Both are temporary, but the same is true of anything else we have. Cold fusion hasn't made great progress =(. There are a number of semi developed ideas with questionable efficiency, but they aren't really up on the table since even once they are developed they need to get through the political process and gain popular support.

Typical conversation with global warming drone:

Q: Do you understand the geophysics behind the claims for and against global warming?

A:No.

Q: Do you keep up with developments in data and current scientific papers relating to the subject?

A:No.

Q:Where do you get your information?

A:The Serra Club

Q:Oh Dear.

The fact of the matter is that 99% of 'the environmentally concerned public' don't really know anything about the topic beyond the political quick answers and stock refutations for detractors, so the whole thing becomes another way for people like Obama to gain power and throw around some lip service and political quick fixes. Bush had jingoism, Obama has 'I'm green and so are you, unless you want to be put in the same box with Bill O'reiley and Glenn Beck.'

Its all just a big jumbled political mess now. The science couldn't matter less to the average moron at some mega concert the put on for 'environmental awareness' or some hemp laden student who is looking for 'peace with mother Earth, and goodwill for all' that can't add three digit numbers.
I dont get the inference of your post are you directing your question and answers to an imaginary audience or a particular few?The intentions of those who believe we are destroying our world come from a desire to improve matters,you might not agree with all their efforts but the motives are a darned sight better than those who ignore the destruction we see.Science is the one that builds windmills and wave machines not the politicians or the green warriors, if it cant resolve this problem dont blame the fools who believe their propaganda.
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 03:07 pm
@xris,
xris;77069 wrote:
I dont get the inference of your post are you directing your question and answers to an imaginary audience or a particular few?


Do you know what a rhetorical question is?Smile

Seriously though, I am simply making the claim that many people don't understand the issues and are at risk for being manipulated by politicians that throw around quick fixes that either don't really do anything or in fact exacerbate the situation.

xris;77069 wrote:
The intentions of those who believe we are destroying our world come from a desire to improve matters,you might not agree with all their efforts but the motives


"The road to hell is paved with...."

It is not enough to act ignorantly but with 'good intentions', you either have to educate yourself or you need to stay out of the way. Someone who is concerned needs to really put in the effort; if they really think that it is that important, they would be educating themselves. In reality, apathy runs deep. Cursory concern helps nothing.


xris;77069 wrote:
Science is the one that builds windmills and wave machines not the politicians or the green warriors, if it cant resolve this problem dont blame the fools who believe their propaganda.

Who controls funding for science...? Oh wait, politicians and the fools who believe their propaganda! Can't politicians can pull off sly redirections of funding so it looks like their doing something they aren't? But they wouldn't really do that would they?:sarcastic:

I think I might need to object to the idea of science solving the problem in a more fundamental way. The problem is a problem of technology. Technology requires far more in the way of materials and resources than scientific research. After you get the idea; you still need an infrastructure, you need product testing, you need to make sure the product will really be efficient, you need to make sure the product can actually be manufactured on the scale that it is needed ect, ect, ect.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 13 Jul, 2009 03:44 pm
@Zetetic11235,
Zetetic11235;77076 wrote:
Do you know what a rhetorical question is?Smile

Seriously though, I am simply making the claim that many people don't understand the issues and are at risk for being manipulated by politicians that throw around quick fixes that either don't really do anything or in fact exacerbate the situation.



.


I would make only one change from m "many people" to, "most people". This whole business will someday be included in the famous book, Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds. (Nuclear Power is the only sane answer, but, of course, most of these people fear it. They are not only in favor of windmills, they think like windmills).
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 14 Jul, 2009 09:13 am
@kennethamy,
Windmills are making a contribution to the energy needs and when the oil and gas run out you believe nuclear is the only answer?Your supererior view of green energy and its advocates are just as short sighted as those who ask for more gas power stations.How can you even think of them when the uk is dependant on Russia for the supply?Nuclear is and should be the main source of power but localised village windmills are viable option.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Tue 14 Jul, 2009 10:04 am
@DasTrnegras,
What's wrong with solar power then? or does that just cost too much to install, it's rubbish, we spend billions and billions on weapons and for what, to blow each other to smitherines and we cant spare a single dime for solar?
 
Imnotrussian
 
Reply Tue 14 Jul, 2009 10:11 am
@DasTrnegras,
I think trees are smug, standing around all day, looking down on everyone, a tree can watch a murder and not interviene, not out of cowardice but laziness, they have stood still for so long they have rooted to the ground, sucking up all our minerals. What if i wanted to eat dirt, im stealing the trees food, greedy bastards. Its almost as if they are'nt sentient at all....lol
All bark and no bite
 
 

 
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