Truth

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Reply Tue 23 Jun, 2009 02:36 pm
How do we build ideas of what truth is?

All I know Right now is that this moment is happening.

I don't know that my memories are real. My past could have never happened. It could all just be fake. We only have the idea of real world things by experianceing them in the current moment and seeking them out. Like I could go and observe that humans die. Then I observe that I am also a human. So I make the assumption that I am going to die. But can we ever really build an idea of truth? Theres no way I can possibly prove that those things only happened because I went to seek them. After I discover these is it really just prejudice saying that they are true? Because from the moment after that there is no way I can possibly know my memories arent just something fake that were just created in that very moment. The begging of everything.
How do we know truth when we can't even prove if reality isnt subjective and can't prove if our memories are real?
 
richrf
 
Reply Tue 23 Jun, 2009 03:18 pm
@glasstrees,
dwixi;71477 wrote:
How do we build ideas of what truth is?

All I know Right now is that this moment is happening.

I don't know that my memories are real. My past could have never happened. It could all just be fake. We only have the idea of real world things by experianceing them in the current moment and seeking them out. Like I could go and observe that humans die. Then I observe that I am also a human. So I make the assumption that I am going to die. But can we ever really build an idea of truth? Theres no way I can possibly prove that those things only happened because I went to seek them. After I discover these is it really just prejudice saying that they are true? Because from the moment after that there is no way I can possibly know my memories arent just something fake that were just created in that very moment. The begging of everything.
How do we know truth when we can't even prove if reality isnt subjective and can't prove if our memories are real?


Hi,

Personally, I don't search for truth. As you say, we are here, now. The past is what we make in now. The future is what we think it might be now. I sense what is happening now. I look though my eyes, and wonder what is it that is doing the observing. Who am I? Until, I can answer this question, I think it will be difficult to know the truth.

Rich
 
glasstrees
 
Reply Tue 23 Jun, 2009 03:23 pm
@richrf,
richrf;71490 wrote:
Hi,

Personally, I don't search for truth. As you say, we are here, now. The past is what we make in now. The future is what we think it might be now. I sense what is happening now. I look though my eyes, and wonder what is it that is doing the observing. Who am I? Until, I can answer this question, I think it will be difficult to know the truth.

Rich


I guess the only way to know this would be to experience a higher state of conciousness?
But i guess you could say you still don't know if that is the true nature.

Shall we class experiences like hylosonations and dreams truth?

We can't prove this existence is any more than a dream state. So i guess we have to assume dreams are real too?
 
nameless
 
Reply Tue 23 Jun, 2009 03:28 pm
@glasstrees,
dwixi;71477 wrote:
How do we build ideas of what truth is?

'Truth' is whatever you think it is... Your concept (Perspective) is one feature of the complete 'Truth'.
The complete definition of 'Truth' is the sum-total of all Perspectives!
 
glasstrees
 
Reply Tue 23 Jun, 2009 03:32 pm
@nameless,
nameless;71495 wrote:
Truth' is whatever you think it is...


What about its relevance to helping you in your life?
Truth should be what gives you an accurate perception for living your life.

If you knew the truth that the lion was behind door number one and not door number two. Then surely thats truth? Its about getting what you want.

If you think truth is that the lion is behind door number one so you go into number 2 and get eaten by a lion how can that be truth?
 
nameless
 
Reply Tue 23 Jun, 2009 03:38 pm
@glasstrees,
dwixi;71496 wrote:
What about its relevance to helping you in your life?

My concepts and notions, whatever they might be, if any, are features of 'my life', not 'helpers'.

Quote:
Truth should be what gives you an accurate perception for living your life.

Accurate perception? All of your perceptions are perfectly accurate for youPerspective.

Quote:
If you knew the truth that the lion was behind door number one and not door number two. Then surely thats truth? Its about getting what you want.

So, your definition of 'truth' is about "getting what you want"? Then that is a definition of 'Truth'.

Quote:
If you think truth is that the lion is behind door number one so you go into number 2 and get eaten by a lion how can that be truth?

Then "Truth" is that you are lion food.
'Truth' is what is. There cannot ever be other than what is. What is, is. That is 'truth'. So is Jesus if that is what you honestly believe!
'Truth' is whatever you perceive.
 
glasstrees
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 04:45 am
@nameless,
nameless;71498 wrote:
My concepts and notions, whatever they might be, if any, are features of 'my life', not 'helpers'.


Accurate perception? All of your perceptions are perfectly accurate for youPerspective.


So, your definition of 'truth' is about "getting what you want"? Then that is a definition of 'Truth'.


Then "Truth" is that you are lion food.
'Truth' is what is. There cannot ever be other than what is. What is, is. That is 'truth'. So is Jesus if that is what you honestly believe!
'Truth' is whatever you perceive.


If this is true how do you decide what beliefs to install then?
One ones that work the best?
The ones that you have seen the most apparent evidence for?
The ones that make you happiest?
 
gone
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 05:08 am
@glasstrees,
Your first hand experience of things as they happen, in the moment and for that one time only [the first time round] - that's truth
 
glasstrees
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 05:11 am
@gone,
gone;71670 wrote:
Your first hand experience of things as they happen, in the moment and for that one time only [the first time round] - that's truth


including dreams and hynusenations right?
 
richrf
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 07:34 am
@glasstrees,
dwixi;71494 wrote:
I guess the only way to know this would be to experience a higher state of conciousness?
But i guess you could say you still don't know if that is the true nature.

Shall we class experiences like hylosonations and dreams truth?

We can't prove this existence is any more than a dream state. So i guess we have to assume dreams are real too?


Hi,

Yes, I agree. Given where we are at know, it might be impossible to provide anything about our existence. But, there is no harm in seeking out ideas and clues that might assist us in understanding our life and existence. But Heraclitus probably said it best:

Nature loves to Hide. Smile

Rich

---------- Post added at 08:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 AM ----------

dwixi;71672 wrote:
including dreams and hynusenations right?


Hi,

Jung felt that dreams provided very meaningful clues to one's life.

Rich
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 08:27 am
@richrf,
richrf;71490 wrote:
Hi,

Personally, I don't search for truth. As you say, we are here, now. The past is what we make in now. The future is what we think it might be now. I sense what is happening now. I look though my eyes, and wonder what is it that is doing the observing. Who am I? Until, I can answer this question, I think it will be difficult to know the truth.

Rich


I imagine you believe that all the statements you make above are true? Or are you just kidding around? You really don't know who you are? Do you have amnesia?
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 08:41 am
@glasstrees,
dwixi;71672 wrote:
including dreams and hynusenations right?
Sorry dwixi but what is hynusenations?xris
 
richrf
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 08:47 am
@xris,
xris;71731 wrote:
Sorry dwixi but what is hynusenations?xris


Maybe, hallucinations?

Rich
 
gone
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 09:36 am
@glasstrees,
dwixi;71672 wrote:
including dreams and hynusenations right?


I think so yeah

Like the guy above me said: dreams shows us the unconcious side to things

---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:36 PM ----------

xris;71731 wrote:
Sorry dwixi but what is hynusenations?xris


pwnt lol...:cool:
 
richrf
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 09:42 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;71726 wrote:
I imagine you believe that all the statements you make above are true? Or are you just kidding around? You really don't know who you are? Do you have amnesia?


Know thyself - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
gone
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 10:43 am
@richrf,
I think it was Saul Williams who said we all drink from different wells...

But, the source of the well [the universe] is well, universal...

By looking at ourselves, we can trace the plumbing from our personal/subjective well, all the way to the objective/central source - truth

I would suggest that we are indeed capable of this through a process of ego death Ego death - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Instead of, like the Greeks, attempting to know ourselves by studying our behavioural habits; we should aspire to leave behind all sense of self and learn about who we are from what we are not

What those who have already experienced it have found from ego death is universal oneness or, a cohesively 'concious universe'. This is considered by many, including Buddhist monks, to be the ultimate truth

I suppose the notion of knowing truth by journeying into the darker, more unconcious aspects of the mind, where our construct of 'self' is no longer present, also ties in with what we were saying about dreaming
 
richrf
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 10:54 am
@gone,
gone;71769 wrote:
I think it was Saul Williams who said we all drink from different wells...

But, the source of the well [the universe] is well, universal...

By looking at ourselves, we can trace the plumbing from the well to the source - truth


I agree. One can explore going out or going in. The micro is within the macro and the macro reflects the micro.
 
nameless
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 11:00 am
@glasstrees,
dwixi;71655 wrote:
If this is true how do you decide what beliefs to install then?

In whom would I "install" beliefs?
No one.
(Personally, I harbor no 'beliefs'.)
I don't think that we rationally "install beliefs" in anyone.
Beliefs are not rational/logical.
'Belief' and 'critical thought' are diametrically opposed. The more of one, the less of the other. 'Beliefs' are an ego-emotional/irr- (non-)rational thing. I don't think (believe) that anyone sallies forth to find some 'belief du jour'.

Quote:
One ones that work the best?
The ones that you have seen the most apparent evidence for?
The ones that make you happiest?

No.
No.
No.
 
gone
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 11:16 am
@nameless,
nameless;71774 wrote:

Beliefs are not rational/logical.
....'Beliefs' are an ego-emotional/irr- (non-)rational thing..


Conclusions made through rational thought are beliefs
 
glasstrees
 
Reply Wed 24 Jun, 2009 01:52 pm
@gone,
gone;71781 wrote:
Conclusions made through rational thought are beliefs


The truth thing is the problem. WHAT IS rational thought. Thats the problem. I undestand it as in looking threw evidance and seeing what adds up but. Thinking more fundermantaly anything you use to have a rational thought about in the first place is prejudice when you say all you know is this moment and your scence of consciousness.
 
 

 
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