de Silentio wrote:
Without the human mind to interrupt reality with doubt, everything is 'true'. Truth, meaning, and value are human dependent words that we restrict reality with. Without our restrictions, reality goes on without qualification.
Well ya. I think it has a lot to do with how well our conceptions of reality agree with reality. Like the guy who invented the wheel barrow to teach the Irish how to walk. Does it really work in just that fashion even though it is hard to find an Irishman who does not know how to walk or work a wheel barrow?
We concieve of reality. Do we all concieve of it the same? I would say no, even though, if we did, that would be one measure of objective truth whether it was true or not. A physics equasion like E= MC squared, might be considered as objectively true, if it is always true; but since we live in time, and time changes all; how can we say what the situation may become, or was. I am in no position to tell anyone what to believe. I only know that when I reach belief I have reached the end of my knowledge. And that is a short trip. I saw an Amos and Andy televison show once where these two flim flamers were trying to sell each other the same house that was only a fascade. One got there early and decided to look inside, opened the door, and walked right through it. He said: What a short house. I'm already in the back yard.
I have read a lot of books, but I am hard up against my own ignorance just as when I started. So, why bother to say What I know, or What is objective truth. Rather, say; we think we know this, and how do we make good with it. I guess that makes me a moralist, because I know, asking what is truth is a moral question. When humans cease to be, what is real will still be real, but nothing will ever be true.
Resha Caner wrote:
Well, good. There's a chance this won't spin totally out of control, then. But as for "evidence" ... hmm. I've seen you reasoning from within a certain world view, but I haven't seen any evidence yet.
Well that is obvious. I am reasoning from a world view. Does that make it true? Certainly, in a limited sense, true. If you ask what is truth you get the same answer as with -what is- before any form. What is Good. What is money. What is time. The true answer cannot be true at all because it sees the object in question from two viewpoints and tries to reconcile them. Every form is a form. And every form is a form of relationship. What is truth. It is a form. And as a form it contains a certain description, or definition of a certain reality. What is a form, and what is every form? Each form is a form of relationship. Now, I state the obvious truth here in regard to truth, but also to all forms: If there is no relationship there is no form. No people, no truth. Also no money, and also no good. There is a relationship between truth as a form, and good as a form, and money as a form, and false as a form too. That has to do with the primary purpose of all forms as a measure of knowledge, as fact, and as classification. If we sort all our forms by name, then each has a certain mental relationship to the others, for example, in the dictionary. That is how we generally think of our ideas, our forms, as distinct from ourselves; and yet they are not at all distinct. We hold our forms because they support us. We do not think with, or relate through the many forms that have fallen by the wayside of human progress. In fact, we progress by way of forms, losing false forms and picking up true forms. When all people progress it is by changing forms. And that is what truth is, and what all forms are. They are forms of relationship. When the forms are true, they feed the relationship, and when they are false they steal life from the relationship.
So, yes; I have a world view. I also have a very utilitarian, and moral view of the truth. In that view, no idea, and no form can be considered objectively, or absolutly true. The only test I have for truth is how well it serves humanity. People judge truth. Truth is a form of relationship. Truth must be good to people in their relationships. And that is the only test of truth I have, and it must be tested every day. The truth is as the truth does. So, you see, it is much more subjective than objective. If you must know the truth, ask those who are subjected to reality. Never ask: What it THE truth; but ask, what is your truth. It is because people come first, and their ideas follow, and their ideas do not exist in any sense, apart from them. Thanks