Time.

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Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 09:15 am
Something I found.

Future possibilities are preexisting realities in never ending reflections of its own body, in a sort of Indra's pearls fashion. From it being a forever reflection of a pebble's self rippling outward like a domino effect of actualities, thus giving explanation toward time's arrow. A reflection of actuality through time allows for the possibility of change of state of actuality. Time's arrow also communicates the efficacy of physical systems innate evolution toward states of lower order, conforming with principles such as those of entropy.

Tell me what you think.
 
William
 
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 09:28 am
@Soul Brother,
Could you explain better what you mean by "conforming with those principles such as entropy"?

Thanks,
William
 
Soul Brother
 
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 01:45 am
@William,
Kindly. The loss of information i.e. loss of order is a phenomenon that is virtually perfectly aligned with the arrow of time, would you not agree? As I understand the informational disorder in a given physical system will innately and inherently escalate specifically as time advances. I lay certain that this is no accident, but is an efficacy. Do you think this physical system as it is today could function let alone support life if this were otherwise? I certainly cannot imagine heat traveling from a cold body to a hot body, or broken eggs that fall from the floor back to the bench to form perfectly ordered unbroken eggs.

This certainly does not imply that the arrow of time is what gives rise to entropy, but only that they function in near perfect conjunction to each other.

Thank you william.
 
Deckard
 
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 02:23 am
@Soul Brother,
Soul Brother;165750 wrote:
Something I found.

Future possibilities are preexisting realities in never ending reflections of its own body, in a sort of Indra's pearls fashion. From it being a forever reflection of a pebble's self rippling outward like a domino effect of actualities, thus giving explanation toward time's arrow. A reflection of actuality through time allows for the possibility of change of state of actuality. Time's arrow also communicates the efficacy of physical systems innate evolution toward states of lower order, conforming with principles such as those of entropy.

Tell me what you think.


Do you mean Future possibilities are the reflections of preexisting realities? You went from plural "possibilities" and "realities" to the singular "it's own body" in the same sentence so that first sentence is very confusing no matter what Indra says unless plurality and singularity are both illusions.

We can imagine one pebble dropped in a pool producing never ending ripples only if absent things like gravity, wind resistance, and of course the shoreline that these never-ending ripples will eventually run up against. But perhaps the pool is infinite and the forces that calm the waves (gravity etc.) are not present. Then we have infinite ripples for ever and ever i.e. no entropy no settling down into states of lower order just never ending ripples in an ever widening circumference.

But consider this: Is there more than one node in Indra's Net? More than one preexisting reality? Is there more than one pebble tossed into the infinite pool? Perhaps an infinite number of pebbles so that there is no center to the net? So that the interference patterns of these never ending ripples eventually or rather immediately flat-line into the calm sea of entropy?
 
Soul Brother
 
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 04:23 am
@Deckard,
Deckard;166023 wrote:
Do you mean Future possibilities are the reflections of preexisting realities? You went from plural "possibilities" and "realities" to the singular "it's own body" in the same sentence so that first sentence is very confusing no matter what Indra says unless plurality and singularity are both illusions.


Deckard. You must excuse my morphological errors, after all english is my third language. But confusing as it is, that sentence was intended as it is, the reflections would be reflections of the one, as you said plurality and singularity, as zero and infinity would be one and the same i.e an illusion.

Deckard;166023 wrote:
can imagine one pebble dropped in a pool producing never ending ripples only if absent things like gravity, wind resistance, and of course the shoreline that these never-ending ripples will eventually run up against. But perhaps the pool is infinite and the forces that calm the waves (gravity etc.) are not present. Then we have infinite ripples for ever and ever i.e. no entropy no settling down into states of lower order just never ending ripples in an ever widening circumference.


I can't imagine things such as gravity and wind resistance having effect on Indra's net. I imagine there would be no shore line but only reflections. Or perhaps the ripples will come to a stop only when its ocean reaches maximum entropy, I cannot imagine how it could keep on operating there on.

Deckard;166023 wrote:
Is there more than one preexisting reality?


Indeed, you are experiencing a preexisting reality right now. When you say now, you are experiencing the same reality that you did a second ago, only it has changed states i.e a separate reflection through the ripple. The actual quantification of an individual reflection I do not know but the closest we can come to it is an attosecond.

Deckard;166023 wrote:
consider this: Is there more than one node in Indra's Net? Is there more than one pebble tossed into the infinite pool? Perhaps an infinite number of pebbles so that there is no center to the net? So that the interference patterns of these never ending ripples eventually or rather immediately flat-line into the calm sea of entropy?


This Deckard, I cannot answer you, for I did not create the magnificent system that is, but am only a part of it.

Thank you Deckard.
 
setzer9999
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 09:39 am
@Soul Brother,
Time isn't necessarily analogous to a pool of water or a series of possibilities. Time may simply be the 4th dimension, one that contains all objects in the 3rd, a static and specific object itself, with specific characteristics. The perception of time flowing and changing may only be the relationship between sets of information contained in multiple three-dimensional objects. The future is no more significant than the present or the past. Just like any other discrete object, it doesn't actually have an "end", a "front", or a "back". Those things only exist in the relationship between sets of information in a brain system.

We simply can't observe this dimension in its totality. It seems to me that things don't actually "happen", but simply exist in the entirety of this dimension. To demonstrate this, pick up a pencil. Let's call the eraser the "past", the wood the "present" and the tip of the graphite the "future". The pencil is an object, and time is an object. "Which one is happening first?" is a meaningless question. Viewed from a 5th dimension, which contains all the 4th, the totality of this dimension can be seen "all at once". Time is just a container for 3 dimensional objects. The past, present, and future are all parts of this specific object, so to put it in familiar terms, the past, present, and future all happen "simultaneously".
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 05:46 pm
@setzer9999,
setzer9999;169999 wrote:
Time is just a container for 3 dimensional objects. The past, present, and future are all parts of this specific object, so to put it in familiar terms, the past, present, and future all happen "simultaneously".


This is one of several views on the issue I find fascinating. This would be a version of objective time. Another version would be human time, or Hegelian time, which is what the thread Future As Primary is about, if you are curious. Smile
 
Neil D
 
Reply Fri 28 May, 2010 08:24 pm
@setzer9999,
setzer9999;169999 wrote:
Time is just a container for 3 dimensional objects. The past, present, and future are all parts of this specific object, so to put it in familiar terms, the past, present, and future all happen "simultaneously".


That does solve the problem of an infinite past also.

And I think it fits with another concept too. The one where you increase your velocity to near light speed. The time you perceive mentally, doesnt appear to change. But it has the effect of jumping ahead of everyone else into future spacetime. Meaning the future would have to exist at the same time as the present.
 
Soul Brother
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 04:22 am
@setzer9999,
setzer9999;169999 wrote:
Time isn't necessarily analogous to a pool of water or a series of possibilities. Time may simply be the 4th dimension, one that contains all objects in the 3rd, a static and specific object itself, with specific characteristics. The perception of time flowing and changing may only be the relationship between sets of information contained in multiple three-dimensional objects. The future is no more significant than the present or the past. Just like any other discrete object, it doesn't actually have an "end", a "front", or a "back". Those things only exist in the relationship between sets of information in a brain system.

We simply can't observe this dimension in its totality. It seems to me that things don't actually "happen", but simply exist in the entirety of this dimension. To demonstrate this, pick up a pencil. Let's call the eraser the "past", the wood the "present" and the tip of the graphite the "future". The pencil is an object, and time is an object. "Which one is happening first?" is a meaningless question. Viewed from a 5th dimension, which contains all the 4th, the totality of this dimension can be seen "all at once". Time is just a container for 3 dimensional objects. The past, present, and future are all parts of this specific object, so to put it in familiar terms, the past, present, and future all happen "simultaneously".


Yes, it is well known that time occurs simultaneously, before, now, after, all the same. This is explained by GR but although before now and after is only applicable to sets of information in relation to they're current states, and the states of systems around them, the ripples of change of state would not mean that all systems experience change of state in an objectively progressive manner, but they would simply imply the possibility of change of state, so before now and after still remains in the subjective view of the individual observer. I would see this container simply as the ability of change of state of all systems in the spatial dimensions.
 
setzer9999
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 07:09 am
@Soul Brother,
I see this relationship between the first 3 dimensions and the fourth not as change, but as certainty. Due to cause and effect and the simultaneous totality of time both being in effect, change is illusory. Nothing has ever changed. All things have "always been", not for units of time, but in the totality of time. In this sense, time is not eternal because it continues onward or backward, but because it exists in the eternal instance of its full "shape".
 
Soul Brother
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 09:22 pm
@setzer9999,
setzer9999;170335 wrote:
I see this relationship between the first 3 dimensions and the fourth not as change, but as certainty. Due to cause and effect and the simultaneous totality of time both being in effect, change is illusory. Nothing has ever changed. All things have "always been", not for units of time, but in the totality of time. In this sense, time is not eternal because it continues onward or backward, but because it exists in the eternal instance of its full "shape".


I do not think change is illusory for change does exist, in the container we would imagine of all moments coexisting so although all the reflections of states of the same body that we subjectively arrange in sequence of past present future exist simultaneously in no particular order that is all that is illusory, however variants of change of state of the body would continue to exist.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sat 29 May, 2010 09:40 pm
@setzer9999,
setzer9999;170335 wrote:
I see this relationship between the first 3 dimensions and the fourth not as change, but as certainty. Due to cause and effect and the simultaneous totality of time both being in effect, change is illusory. Nothing has ever changed. All things have "always been", not for units of time, but in the totality of time. In this sense, time is not eternal because it continues onward or backward, but because it exists in the eternal instance of its full "shape".


I've always thought that this notion was beautiful. I 'm glad it exists. I must insist however that it is only one of at least two potent conceptions of time.

But back to this notion. Metaphorical speaking, all existence contained in all 4 dimensions which are all already here, but appear to humans in only 3 dimensions at a time....would be something like God.

But this is conceptual poetry....

---------- Post added 05-29-2010 at 10:41 PM ----------

Soul Brother;170651 wrote:
I do not think change is illusory for change does exist, in the container we would imagine of all moments coexisting so although all the reflections of states of the same body that we subjectively arrange in sequence of past present future exist simultaneously in no particular order that is all that is illusory, however variants of change of state of the body would continue to exist.


Right. It all depends on how one defines change?
 
Soul Brother
 
Reply Sun 30 May, 2010 12:23 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;170654 wrote:
Right. It all depends on how one defines change?


What I implied was that although states would coexist in the container with no particular order there is still change, the change being the variant states, if there were no variant states of the body all we would have would be a single state of the body i.e a picture, a single state with no possibility for change of state. So these coexisting variant state(s) are indeed change.
 
Greta phil
 
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 10:15 pm
@Soul Brother,
I can see through time and have proven it. That makes me Miss Universe!!

Miss Universe - never misses anything. Not married - just very onto it. I missed a few dates!! I'll get them though

Time is mine to tell.....

---------- Post added 06-04-2010 at 04:23 PM ----------

Of me it is said..."she knows things before they happen and can use it to advantage"


Well what use is it to know something before it happens and not do something about it in some way. It is like anything - knowledge is nothing and completey useless if it can not be used in some way. Therefore also giving me great skill....and effectively a leader....because I am there first. Anything that is first is the leader!! Or can you proove otherwise?

---------- Post added 06-04-2010 at 04:26 PM ----------

For me it is not vsions so much as 'feel' I feel things before they happen. And I can tell you tha great things are heading our way......I feel itdeeply. That also effectively means that I am deeply great!! Right through. Am I heading your way? Maybe!!

---------- Post added 06-04-2010 at 04:28 PM ----------

It also means I have the most powerful mind in recorded history.

How cool is that?

And you can get to know me right here right now and not through some history book...or on my case....future book.

---------- Post added 06-04-2010 at 04:31 PM ----------

...it is just a matter of getting in first!!
 
Soul Brother
 
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 03:04 am
@Greta phil,
Greta;172794 wrote:
I can see through time and have proven it.


How did you go about this? I am very interested.

Greta;172794 wrote:
Well what use is it to know something before it happens and not do something about it in some way. It is like anything - knowledge is nothing and completey useless if it can not be used in some way.


But what if you knew of a spider crawling on you and you foresaw that a hysteric attempt to shake it off would only aggravate the spider resulting in you getting bitten? I doubt that with this knowledge you would then fail to remain calm as to not aggravate the spider thereby avoid getting bitten, but this would falsify your philosophy of there being no use in knowing something and not doing anything about it as indeed you did know but you took no action and remained still, but by remaining still you would have executed a voluntary action thereby taking the action of taking no action, a paradox.

Greta;172794 wrote:
Therefore also giving me great skill....and effectively a leader....because I am there first. Anything that is first is the leader!! Or can you proove otherwise?


I am very certain that a president is considered the leader of a country, however when that country goes to war the president does not lead in front of them but rather sits sound at a long distance away in a safe location.

Greta;172794 wrote:
For me it is not vsions so much as 'feel' I feel things before they happen. And I can tell you tha great things are heading our way......I feel itdeeply. That also effectively means that I am deeply great!! Right through. Am I heading your way? Maybe!!


Wouldn't it be if great things are headed my way? and would that not imply that you would not be great until these great things have come about to actuality since what is not yet, cannot yet poses attributes?

I thought you were already heading my way? But if I were to come to you this would imply that if my way is to head your way than your way is my way which is the way of your original way.

Greta;172794 wrote:
It also means I have the most powerful mind in recorded history.


Is that true?
 
Greta phil
 
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 04:29 am
@Soul Brother,
How did you go about this? I am very interested

---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 10:36 PM ----------

15 years ago I 'saw' this time in life. I had a general interpretation for it.
I did not really think twice about it and continued to live my life. I have alway had a thing for time and developed some reasoning and a few theories in relation to it all. These events are mostly out of my control and I have said most of it before it has happened (and am continuing to do so). It has proven correct in a complex way on a glodal scale. Basically if you can see something in the future - it is no matter what and will happen. By that I do not mean a vision you may create and try to make come true.

---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 11:01 PM ----------

Soul Brother;172883 wrote:
How did you go about this? I am very interested.



But what if you knew of a spider crawling on you and you foresaw that a hysteric attempt to shake it off would only aggravate the spider resulting in you getting bitten? I doubt that with this knowledge you would then fail to remain calm as to not aggravate the spider thereby avoid getting bitten, but this would falsify your philosophy of there being no use in knowing something and not doing anything about it as indeed you did know but you took no action and remained still, but by remaining still you would have executed a voluntary action thereby taking the action of taking no action, a paradox.



I am very certain that a president is considered the leader of a country, however when that country goes to war the president does not lead in front of them but rather sits sound at a long distance away in a safe location.



Wouldn't it be if great things are headed my way? and would that not imply that you would not be great until these great things have come about to actuality since what is not yet, cannot yet poses attributes?

I thought you were already heading my way? But if I were to come to you this would imply that if my way is to head your way than your way is my way which is the way of your original way.



Is that true?

A president is a leader by election. This is great because obviously it comes from desire, dedication, ability and is chosen by the people. I also believe leadership is a direction not a location. This leadership may be temporary as given by the title. My type of leadership will hopefully go on as long as I do. Not resticted to a location or a title. I am always located safely.

---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 11:07 PM ----------

My ability to know things before they happen gives me great focus and control. If I did not have this - I would not see things clearly for what they are. Yes - I do freak about spiders. I often sense their presence before I see them which puts me on high alert rather than freak mode!! I carefully capture and put safely where the belong (outside). I live in a country where they do not bite or a least are not dangerous in any real sense. I also tend to freeze up at the sight of one - as do they when they see me!

---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 11:19 PM ----------

Is it true about my powerful mind?Yes - To date this is true. It is just the way I am wired and was born this way. I intend to use it for good - to make this planet a better place. It is a mess out there. I think this planet needs all the help it can get. The more on board to do this - the better. Lets get great minds together for the better.

---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 11:21 PM ----------

I think we must be heading each others way. Great things always collide!!!
I'm looking forward to it.....

---------- Post added 06-05-2010 at 11:35 PM ----------

What I would like to do as far as 'leadership' goes is not only help solve the problems we are facing in this age but also to give people a new direction as far as thinking goes. To turn damaging attitudes and ways around. To help people see and think differently - more positively, more constructively. Every person is different and therefore has something important to offer, as long as it is utilized. I believe that no matter what else is done or what amount of money is spent - it is of no long term benefit if we can't change the way we see and think. It has to come from the minds of the people.
 
Greta phil
 
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2010 09:09 pm
@Soul Brother,
Soul Brother;172883 wrote:
How did you go about this? I am very interested.



But what if you knew of a spider crawling on you and you foresaw that a hysteric attempt to shake it off would only aggravate the spider resulting in you getting bitten? I doubt that with this knowledge you would then fail to remain calm as to not aggravate the spider thereby avoid getting bitten, but this would falsify your philosophy of there being no use in knowing something and not doing anything about it as indeed you did know but you took no action and remained still, but by remaining still you would have executed a voluntary action thereby taking the action of taking no action, a paradox.



I am very certain that a president is considered the leader of a country, however when that country goes to war the president does not lead in front of them but rather sits sound at a long distance away in a safe location.



Wouldn't it be if great things are headed my way? and would that not imply that you would not be great until these great things have come about to actuality since what is not yet, cannot yet poses attributes?

I thought you were already heading my way? But if I were to come to you this would imply that if my way is to head your way than your way is my way which is the way of your original way.



Is that true?

As I have approached this time that I saw from such a long distance, physical reality has literall got 'thinner' for me. I am aware to some extent of almost everything of significance that is going on. I have been able to feel all the earthquakes, the violence, land slides etc. I am able to feel BP's oil leak. It makes sense I suppose I would know everything that is going on now - if I saw it from such a distance.
 
north
 
Reply Sun 6 Jun, 2010 11:28 pm
@Soul Brother,
Soul Brother;165750 wrote:
Something I found.

Future possibilities are preexisting realities in never ending reflections of its own body, in a sort of Indra's pearls fashion. From it being a forever reflection of a pebble's self rippling outward like a domino effect of actualities, thus giving explanation toward time's arrow. A reflection of actuality through time allows for the possibility of change of state of actuality. Time's arrow also communicates the efficacy of physical systems innate evolution toward states of lower order, conforming with principles such as those of entropy.

Tell me what you think.


all of which has nothing to do with time, time this and time that, blah ,blah , blah

I mean look at time , in depth , not the mathematical but the essence of time its self , think!!
 
Greta phil
 
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 01:31 am
@Soul Brother,
I have correct theories for time - which have been proven (correctly) I can see through time. Because of this I can also see much that others can not see. Effectively contributing new and important information to science and new information to pshycology.

My Government knows this, has trashed my life and has continued with the attitude "why should we help her"...Do you think if I announced and prooved that I was the worlds most dangerous criminal they would have the attitude "why should we help anyone with regard to her...?" These two attitudes are effectively the same.......
 
Neil D
 
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 12:46 pm
@Greta phil,
Greta;174534 wrote:
I have correct theories for time - which have been proven (correctly) I can see through time. Because of this I can also see much that others can not see. Effectively contributing new and important information to science and new information to pshycology.


What new and important information have you contributed to science?
 
 

 
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