The Real is Rational

@prothero,

prothero;155524 wrote:

Imagine a world in which the real was not rational?

Yeah. It is called 'reality television'. And it is watched by billions of people.

@kennethamy,

Quote:

Originally Posted by longknowledge
The "real" is only "rational" when we interpret it using a "rational" structure. Otherwise it just "is". When we encounter a phenomenon that we do not understand, i.e., we can't fit it into any structure that we know, that phenomenon is not "rational" for us. But the phenomenon is still real for us. It exists in our life, which is the "radical reality."

:flowers:

kennethamy;155210 wrote:

I wonder how, with all those words between inverted commas, I can know whether what you mean is what I mean when I read what you write.

Those aren't inverted commas, they're quotation marks, dummy. They are used for emphasis because these are the terms that are being discussed in this thread, or the special terms that are used by Ortega, or they just "are," if you get my meaning.

By the way, my first sentence above does not use inverted commas but rather apostrophes.

:flowers:

@prothero,

prothero;155524 wrote:

"The real is rational"
Yes, of course. Which is why we can discover the "laws" of nature and express them in mathematical form. It also implies IMHO that there is a rational and creative agency behind the "real" which I suppose implies some form of mind or intelligence inherent in nature.
Imagine a world in which the real was not rational?

Nature is not rational or non-rational. People are rational or non-rational. Any world must have regularities. Otherwise it would not exist. That is why we cannot imagine a world without laws. There is nothing to imagine.

@Reconstructo,

What is wrong with longfellow??? He does not seem to see kenneth as smart as he sees himself...

Does anyone see that the problem is as much with our language as with each other???

We look at mountains and words and say they have meaning because we have learned to think of meaning as alienated from ourselves... Or we look at nature and say it is rational because we can reason about it using our laws, which are concepts, and principals.

Reason and meaning are our qualities that we share with all of existence as a necessity of life

---------- Post added 04-23-2010 at 06:53 AM ----------

kennethamy;155559 wrote:

Nature is not rational or non-rational. People are rational or non-rational. Any world must have regularities. Otherwise it would not exist. That is why we cannot imagine a world without laws. There is nothing to imagine.

If the world has regularities, then we can count on them, and plan around them, which is rational on our part, and it is also rational to frame the regularities as laws even if not exactly accurate...We do the same thing with people, saying that they are rational if they behave as we desire whether it is from their point of view, rational or not...

@Fido,

Fido;155587 wrote:

What is wrong with longfellow??? He does not seem to see kenneth as smart as he sees himself...

That's longknowledge to you sir!

I like to point out kennethamy's errors when I spot them to counter his "knowlier-than-thou" attitude toward most Forum participants. He does seem to have a good sense of humor about it when I do it.

:flowers:

@longknowledge,

longknowledge;155624 wrote:

That's longknowledge to you sir!

I like to point out kennethamy's errors when I spot them to counter his "knowlier-than-thou" attitude toward most Forum participants. He does seem to have a good sense of humor about it when I do it.

:flowers:

Don't sir at me; I don't sir at you!!!

@longknowledge,

longknowledge;155624 wrote:

That's longknowledge to you sir!

I like to point out kennethamy's errors when I spot them to counter his "knowlier-than-thou" attitude toward most Forum participants. He does seem to have a good sense of humor about it when I do it.

:flowers:

Sure. To err is human. To forgive, divine. And everyone thinks I am just too, too, divine!

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;155712 wrote:

Sure. To err is human. To forgive, divine. And everyone thinks I am just too, too, divine!

Wait till they turn on the lights or become conscious...

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