Is there a reason for the existence of the universe? Suppose, there is a reason. There are two possibilities. Either the reason is within the universe, or the reason is outside the universe. The latter possibility is not possible since there is no "outside" to everything. So, we are left with only one possibility, namely, the reason for the universe is within the universe. Here, we have two possibility also. The reason could be 1. the reason is a part of the universe, or 2 the reason is the whole universe itself. Both possibility is sort stupid on reflection. It both case, it means that there is some object with the essence to exist. This is to suppose existence is a predicate. In either case, it rest on the notion that some entities has the property of existence. This is questionable. One solution is to say god has this property of self-existence, which than bring the universe into being. Atheist would question why the universe don` t have this property. If
there are any object with self-existing properties, then i assert that they must be mathematical objects. Such object bring about the world. I doubt this also, since math objects don` t have any spatio-temporal, or causal effects.

The universe is not restricted to only 2 possibilties..

Is there a reason for the existence of the universe? Suppose, there is a reason. There are two possibilities. Either the reason is within the universe, or the reason is outside the universe.

Is there a reason for the existence of the universe? Suppose, there is a reason. There are two possibilities. Either the reason is within the universe, or the reason is outside the universe. The latter possibility is not possible since there is no "outside" to everything. So, we are left with only one possibility, namely, the reason for the universe is within the universe. Here, we have two possibility also. The reason could be 1. the reason is a part of the universe, or 2 the reason is the whole universe itself. Both possibility is sort stupid on reflection. It both case, it means that there is some object with the essence to exist. This is to suppose existence is a predicate. In either case, it rest on the notion that some entities has the property of existence. This is questionable. One solution is to say god has this property of self-existence, which than bring the universe into being. Atheist would question why the universe don` t have this property. If
there are any object with self-existing properties, then i assert that they must be mathematical objects. Such object bring about the world. I doubt this also, since math objects don` t have any spatio-temporal, or causal effects.

Why shouldn't God be outside the universe?

1) how should we know?

2) why are you asking a question to which there are no answer?

3) are you a fan of the pharse "I think, therefore I am" ?

1, ha?

2, ha?

3, ha?

Thought so. :listening:

Did i say god is outside the universe?

---------- Post added 04-04-2010 at 10:47 PM ----------

Why do you say that only mathematical objects can be self-existent?

My view is that the universe does not contain a reason for its existence. This is because nothing in it can be said to be self-existent or self-caused. Everything in it owes its existence to something else; and this can be said of every observable particular. This has been used as the basis for the cosmological argument, which is that there must be a first cause. If there is no cause for anything, then how does anything come to be? And for that matter, what is the basis of reason and rationality? If there were not some ground at a prior level to reason itself, how would reason gain a foothold?

if you are so smart, then why are you not rich?

Spend far too much time sitting here, doing this.:bigsmile:

---------- Post added 04-05-2010 at 10:04 PM ----------

actually on a more serious note, I thought the whole point of philosophy was to ponder, if not find, general causes. I mean, the Universe consists of a very large number of individual items, is it meaningful to talk of causality as if it were simply a series of explanations for each thing, or kind of thing?

Why do you say that only mathematical objects can be self-existent?

My view is that the universe does not contain a reason for its existence. This is because nothing in it can be said to be self-existent or self-caused. Everything in it owes its existence to something else; and this can be said of every observable particular. This has been used as the basis for the cosmological argument, which is that there must be a first cause. If there is no cause for anything, then how does anything come to be? And for that matter, what is the basis of reason and rationality? If there were not some ground at a prior level to reason itself, how would reason gain a foothold?

No, you did not, and in fact you said He was not outside the universe. And I asked you why you said that.

you cannot validly conclude that because the parts of the universe are caused, that the universe as a whole has a cause.

---------- Post added 04-05-2010 at 06:14 PM ----------



Because if god exist, then it is surely something, and thus, part of the universe.

Yes, but, of course, it is claimed that God is not a part of the universe, but is the creator of the universe. This is just a verbal matter, depending on what is meant by, "the universe". If "the universe" is defined as "everything excepting God" the issue goes away.

which do you reject?

1. God is something.
2. something is part of everything( universe).
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God is part of everything( universe).