Free Will and Supernaturalism

@Night Ripper,

Night Ripper;130771 wrote:

No, I don't agree. A purpose is not the same thing as a set of programmed actions. I can make cookies for the purpose of them being eaten by my guests but I don't have instructions for them on whether or not to dunk the cookies in milk.

So the deity's purpose for creating an agent is so that it can have free will? I can understand that, but that doesn't cancel out omniscience and fatalism. If omniscience is an attribute of this deity, then doesn't that mean that the future and purpose of an agent is set?

@Night Ripper,

Night Ripper;130771 wrote:

It's often used as an argument for atheism.

I never knew there had to be an argument for atheism. I just always thought it was no belief. I guess I have to now come up with a reason why I don't believe in everything that I don't believe in? Seems a little silly and time consuming.

Night Ripper;130771 wrote:

Also, Krumple seemed to think I was religious so I was just setting the record straight.

I might call someone, stupid, or idiot or a moron but I would never call anyone religious, that is just mean. I wouldn't even imply that you were religious, that would be cruel.

State thy designation?

You know what my purpose is? It is to have no purpose. I wonder if I have fulfilled my purpose.

@hue-man,

hue-man;130774 wrote:

If omniscience is an attribute of this deity, then doesn't that mean that the future and purpose of an agent is set?

No, it does not and we've already covered this.

Knowing the future does not determine the future. The future determines what is known about it.

It's not as if the deity knows I will wash my car next Thursday therefore I must wash my car next Thursday, even if I change my mind at the last minute.

No, it's because I didn't change my mind at the last minute that the deity knows it's Thursday. Otherwise it would have known Friday or whatever other day I freely chose at the last minute.

Foreknowledge doesn't determine the future. The future determines what is foreknown.

@Night Ripper,

Night Ripper;130742 wrote:

The original post doesn't say anything about our entire lives being planned out from start to finish. It says that the deity creates everything with a purpose. So, assuming the deity created us with the purpose of having free will, how is that incompatible with anything?

Well then, you can determine that us humans don't have total free will.
Life does have meaning, biologically, but I don't believe we have as much free will as we think.
The Deity created free will, so we contain what the deity have given us, if that makes sense?

@Krumple,

Krumple;130777 wrote:

I might call someone, stupid, or idiot or a moron but I would never call anyone religious, that is just mean. I wouldn't even imply that you were religious, that would be cruel.

Yeah I would never call anyone antireligious, for the same reason. Even though I am sure there are such people.:bigsmile:

@hue-man,

hue-man;130774 wrote:

So the deity's purpose for creating an agent is so that it can have free will? I can understand that, but that doesn't cancel out omniscience and fatalism. If omniscience is an attribute of this deity, then doesn't that mean that the future and purpose of an agent is set?

No, because an omniscient deity will know that an agent will what he does of the agent's free will. For instance, Judas betrayed Christ, and sinned. But Judas sinned of his own free will, and, of course, God (who is omniscient knew this). Suppose God had not known Judas would sin of his own free will, then, of course, God would not have been omniscient. Remember, Judas did not sin because God knew he would sin; God knew Judas would sin because Judas would sin. God's knowing Judas would sin did not force Judas to sin; But Judas's sinning forced God to know that Judas would sin.

(I wrote this before I read Night Ripper's earlier post. Night Ripper makes the same point).

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