Ontological relativity( W.V. Quine)

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil. Albuquerque;99833 wrote:

For instance Quantic Mechanics and Corpuscular Theory address matter behaviour in a different way, and you say that is not relevant...

But, what has any of this to do with the question of the thread? Why not stay with the question instead of wandering about all over the place. Forgetting about matter, what does it mean to say that an elephant exists, but a mermaid does not exist. You can answer that without even mentioning quantum mechanics. Most people do who have never even heard of quantum mechanics. We can talk about something without talking about everything at once. If we do that, we may get somewhere, instead of ending up in total confusion, and not settling anything at all.

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;99835 wrote:

But, what has any of this to do with the question of the thread? Why not stay with the question instead of wandering about all over the place. Forgetting about matter, what does it mean to say that an elephant exists, but a mermaid does not exist. You can answer that without even mentioning quantum mechanics. Most people do who have never even heard of quantum mechanics. We can talk about something without talking about everything at once. If we do that, we may get somewhere, instead of ending up in total confusion, and not settling anything at all.

---------- Post added 10-26-2009 at 11:41 AM ----------

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil. Albuquerque;99852 wrote:

---------- Post added 10-26-2009 at 11:41 AM ----------

.....

I really must take you to the Zoo one day and point out an elephant to you. But, of course, you can look up elephants in many places. You know there are elephants, and you know there are no mermaids. No point in arguing just for the sake of arguing, is there? It is just a waste of time. The real issue is what is it that is meant by there are elephants, and there are no mermaids. Let us forget the silliness. And let's talk about what it means to say there are elephants and no mermaids, instead of talking about the pointless nonsense of whether or not there are elephants or mermaids. That is really just argument for argument's sake. If you think there are no mermaids and not elephants, then fine. But then, what does that mean? That is the question posed by this thread.

@kennethamy,

Quote:

If you think there are no mermaids and not elephants, then fine. But then, what does that mean? That is the question posed by this thread.

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil. Albuquerque;99906 wrote:

You don't know there are elephants, and that there are no mermaids? Hmm.

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;99908 wrote:

You don't know there are elephants, and that there are no mermaids? Hmm.

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil. Albuquerque;99910 wrote:

If they are in the Zoo, and you are not in the Zoo, then, no doubt that is true. Going to the Zoo would fix that.Then you will be able to see them. But what would that have to do with whether you know that there are elephants? I am not in the Zoo, but I know that there are elephants. I don't have to see the elephants to know there are elephants. No more than I have to see Portugal to know that there is a country called Portugal.

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;99912 wrote:

If they are in the Zoo, and you are not in the Zoo, then, no doubt that is true. Going to the Zoo would fix that.Then you will be able to see them. But what would that have to do with whether you know that there are elephants? I am not in the Zoo, but I know that there are elephants. I don't have to see the elephants to know there are elephants. No more than I have to see Portugal to know that there is a country called Portugal.

In other words you are certain that perception equals reality while I think its equivalent but not equal...in both cases its a belief...

...as you probably noted i tend to go against Scholastic...
...to many objects and Bureaucracy, to little Wisdom...
...for me EQUIVALENCE is the word...

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil. Albuquerque;99914 wrote:

In other words you are certain that perception equals reality while I think its equivalent but not equal...in both cases its a belief...

No, I am not certain of anything much. But, I don't have to be certain that there are elephants to know that there are elephants. In other words I know, beyond all reasonable doubt that there are elephants, and that there are no mermaids. But not beyond all doubt. And, I don't have to perceive elephants to know that there are elephants. And, neither do you.

@kennethamy,

Quote:

And, I don't have to perceive elephants to know that there are elephants. And, neither do you.

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil. Albuquerque;99916 wrote:

I have other means of knowing that they exist. For example, I can look them up on the internet. Or in an encyclopedia. Don't you know there is a country called Nepal. Have you ever seen it? How do you know that Portuguese is spoken in Brazil? Have you been there? I have not, but I know it is.

@vectorcube,

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil. Albuquerque;99919 wrote:

What does the fact that people used to think the Sun goes around the Earth to do with my knowing about anything? I know that there is a letter in my postbox because the postman brought it. Don't I? I don't know what is meant by "Social Perception". But I know many things indirectly, by inference. And that includes by knowing that there is a country called Japan, although I have never been there. And I don't suppose you have ever been to Nepal, but you know there is such a country, nevertheless. Don't you?

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;99921 wrote:

What does the fact that people used to think the Sun goes around the Earth to do with my knowing about anything? I know that there is a letter in my postbox because the postman brought it. Don't I? I don't know what is meant by "Social Perception". But I know many things indirectly, by inference. And that includes by knowing that there is a country called Japan, although I have never been there. And I don't suppose you have ever been to Nepal, but you know there is such a country, nevertheless. Don't you?

You might at best Know that there is something, but not what...

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil. Albuquerque;99922 wrote:

You might at best Know that there is something, but not what...

I know there is a country called, "Portugal". Don't you? And I know there is a country called, "Spain". Don't you?

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;99951 wrote:

I know there is a country called, "Portugal". Don't you? And I know there is a country called, "Spain". Don't you?

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil. Albuquerque;99979 wrote:

You can easily look up Portugal using Google, or some other search engine. And Spain too. I wonder why you (and others who philosophize) say they do not know things they obviously do know, and they would say that they knew if they were not philosophizing.

Thank you for tip.

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