Does The Universe Have A Purpose?

@Kreist,

If there were no universe there would be no "purpose".

@Miranda phil,

Miranda wrote:

If there were no universe there would be no "purpose".

Purpose exists for us within the form of our existence... Whether there was a cause or not for the universe is something we can never prove or disprove; but we might see that accident might be the potential cause, as it is for many things, and existence a result without being the result of purpose...

@Kreist,

Hegel's Philosophy of History would suggest yes. Even if you get rid of his mystical elements and look purely scientifically. There is in some sense a Teleos. From the big bang, to lifeless molten earth. Life out of dust. From worms to apes. And then man's advance from tribal savages to the modern age. It may be randomness and natural selection that are the primary cause. But if you look at the full grown tree, its hard not to see some purpose in the seed.

And yet... Schopenhauer

Schopenhauer reminds me of the "forbidden knowledge" of a HP Lovecraft occult novel. There is nothing more frightening in the world, than knowledge man is not suppose to have. And no knowledge more terrible than the sheer insignificance of life. The meaninglessness of existence.

But existence is worse than a neutral 0, it is a positive evil. I look back to Ancient Greece. The most beautiful period in man's history. Art, drama, tragedy, history, architecture, athletics, direct democracy, citizen. The sheer beauty of it overwhelms. IF there is any good in the world, it is Plato writing such sublime ideas, when living in such primitive times.

And yet is it worth it? Noble Achilles the hero of the Greeks. It is just taken for granted that these great heroes can slaughter thousands. Kill a girl's parents and husband, smash the skull of her newborn infant. And then take her as a sex slave. And these are great queens and princesses. The lives of slaves. Over 90% of the population, are out of Dante's hell.

So take Greece, and apply it to all of history. And most of history is far less beautiful, with just as much and many times more pain. Can the world we live in? The most advance and "humane" apex of human history justify centuries of hell?

I do not see how.

@jschein,

If the Gnostic and more enlightened Theosophical views are correct, then yes the universe has the purpose of allowing us to experience something other than paradise, Nirvana, etc., in order to be able to appreciate it and make us something out of us other than robots.

If the universe is just a particle in some larger entity like the toe nail of a immense cosmic hedgehog, then it also serves some purpose.

If we are a subatomic particle of said hedgehogs apendix, then possibly not.

There are really many speculative purposes, but by what we can witness first hand, pupose only seems to exist in the form of circular logic, as far as life and reproduction go.

The universe is also a reactor for learning, but there would have to be something outside of it, where what we learned was needed, in order for their to be purpose outside of circular arguments, which leads me back to my first point.

@jschein,

jschein wrote:

Hegel's Philosophy of History would suggest yes. Even if you get rid of his mystical elements and look purely scientifically. There is in some sense a Teleos. From the big bang, to lifeless molten earth. Life out of dust. From worms to apes. And then man's advance from tribal savages to the modern age. It may be randomness and natural selection that are the primary cause. But if you look at the full grown tree, its hard not to see some purpose in the seed.

And yet... Schopenhauer

Schopenhauer reminds me of the "forbidden knowledge" of a HP Lovecraft occult novel. There is nothing more frightening in the world, than knowledge man is not suppose to have. And no knowledge more terrible than the sheer insignificance of life. The meaninglessness of existence.

But existence is worse than a neutral 0, it is a positive evil. I look back to Ancient Greece. The most beautiful period in man's history. Art, drama, tragedy, history, architecture, athletics, direct democracy, citizen. The sheer beauty of it overwhelms. IF there is any good in the world, it is Plato writing such sublime ideas, when living in such primitive times.

And yet is it worth it? Noble Achilles the hero of the Greeks. It is just taken for granted that these great heroes can slaughter thousands. Kill a girl's parents and husband, smash the skull of her newborn infant. And then take her as a sex slave. And these are great queens and princesses. The lives of slaves. Over 90% of the population, are out of Dante's hell.

So take Greece, and apply it to all of history. And most of history is far less beautiful, with just as much and many times more pain. Can the world we live in? The most advance and "humane" apex of human history justify centuries of hell?

I do not see how.

I think the most ugly part of the story of Greece is the ignorance of people like Plato... Money as a form was replacing bit by bit their natural forms relationship, and worst of all, while the Greeks were familiar with many other cultures, they could not see their strength as residing in their natural institutions; but in some abstractions, like virtue or wisdom...

Something else...Achilles coming from an earlier age could no more conceive of his death, or sympathize with his fate than with the fate of his enemies... When told that his own death would follow on the heels of his enemy's death, he said: Prepare me for my fate...They were so many object...They were like pieces on a chess board move inexorably by honor and fate...Actual choice was for the most part missing from their lives...Not to say that it is much present in our lives...It is one advantage to having enough of money or enough of anything, and it is the challenge in our lives: to keep responsibility, and control in our own affairs.. Without that, the possibility of doing good is beyond us...

@Kreist,

I think that the best forum for this would have been metaphysics, but what the hell.

No, the universe shows no evidence for an objective purpose. Purpose or intent is related to volition, volition is related to the mind, the mind is the holistic word for the functions of the biological, material brain. The events of the universe are related to the nonvolitional situations and circumstances that cause them. That is why we are forced to assign purpose to our lives according to our personal and human values.

@hue-man,

hue-man wrote:

I think that the best forum for this would have been metaphysics, but what the hell.

No, the universe shows no evidence for an objective purpose. Purpose or intent is related to volition, volition is related to the mind, the mind is the holistic word for the functions of the biological, material brain. The events of the universe are related to the nonvolitional situations and circumstances that cause them. That is why we are forced to assign purpose to our lives according to our personal and human values.

Good one Hue man... The thing is, that the universe could have been created with a purpose... That does not mean there is a secondary purpose... And it does not mean it was not the by product of another purpose, which is to say: an accident... We; on the other hand may have a Purpose, or even a wale, for that matter... What ever we can afford...

@paulhanke,

No for things to have purpose is a human desire in which is also why humans have religions.

@Kreist,

Kreist wrote:

John Templeton Foundation : Does the Universe Have a Purpose?

an interesting collection of essays from people in various fields on what they think about this question. this seemed like the best forum for this. does anyone have any thoughts on the responses here, or any responses of your own?

Purpose is a construction of mankind that is used in everyday survival. To project purpose on the universe is to project the human experience onto the universe -- which I would say would be arrogant. The universe is not human nor 'alive' and has no need for purpose.

Philosophy Forum

Does The Universe Have A Purpose?

Quick Links

My Account

able2know