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Does The Universe Have A Purpose?

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John Templeton Foundation : Does the Universe Have a Purpose?

an interesting collection of essays from people in various fields on what they think about this question. this seemed like the best forum for this. does anyone have any thoughts on the responses here, or any responses of your own?

@Kreist,

... great link! ... does the universe have a purpose? - personally, I would say "no" ... but does the universe have purpose? - to that, I would answer "of course" ... I experience purpose; I am part of the universe; therefore, the universe has purpose ...

@Kreist,

Kreist wrote:

John Templeton Foundation : Does the Universe Have a Purpose?

an interesting collection of essays from people in various fields on what they think about this question. this seemed like the best forum for this. does anyone have any thoughts on the responses here, or any responses of your own?

The universe has a pet purpose...It hangs out with Free Willy, and occasionally jumps through a hoop for a sardine...

Or did you expect a serious answer???

@Kreist,

It seems for the universe to have a purpose, it would need to judge for itself that it has some reason to exist. I see purpose as a sort of judgment call, plan, or motive, which would require a subject to formulate that call, plan, or motive for itself. We can ascribe a purpose to the universe, but that does not make the ascription true.

@Kreist,

Kreist,

For the universe to have a purpose would it not have to be aware of something outside itself, this would only be possiable if the universe was a closed system, and as far as we know there is no such thing as a closed system. PS: I see the above post says much the same thing.

@Kreist,

great find... i bookmarked to read later...

ive always said there is purpose for existence... even if a creator would give it a different purpose than i do... like... i teach at Great Beginnings... a daycare... and its always fun to take things and ask "whats this for" and hear the answers from 3 and 4 year olds... A rolling pins purpose is for playdough! A sheet is for making forts! A worm is for scaring sister. Not the answers an adult would give...

I think the best way to sum up a purpose for existance for conscious beings is: "experiences"

What was that hitchhikers guide quote where its something about: "if we were to ever discover the meaning of life the universe would implode, and restart with an even more strange meaning. Some theorize this already happened."
ive been meaning to refind that for my quotes journal...

@sarathustrah,

sarathustrah wrote:

great find... i bookmarked to read later...

ive always said there is purpose for existence... even if a creator would give it a different purpose than i do... like... i teach at Great Beginnings... a daycare... and its always fun to take things and ask "whats this for" and hear the answers from 3 and 4 year olds... A rolling pins purpose is for playdough! A sheet is for making forts! A worm is for scaring sister. Not the answers an adult would give...

I think the best way to sum up a purpose for existance for conscious beings is: "experiences"

What was that hitchhikers guide quote where its something about: "if we were to ever discover the meaning of life the universe would implode, and restart with an even more strange meaning. Some theorize this already happened."
ive been meaning to refind that for my quotes journal...

sarathustrah; Smile

Outside of the amusing childrens stories, what you describe in the later part sounds very much like a process, the oscillating universe as process, this would indicate no meaning. As the old Buddhist master stated, what is the meaning of a flower, the answer, there is no meaning, it just is, and so to, you, just are.

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend, inside a dog its to dark to read!!" --Marks Brothers

@Kreist,

though you could say the flower has no meaning.. it certainly has a purpose... to make sure there will still be flowers in the future... flower reproduction... though the buddhist master has a sweet simplification to it... i still interpret its being as meaning.

(i bet i didnt say that right...)

but that reminds me of the fun thing to contemplate... could a flower be aware without a brain... without a nervous system... could the cells that make up the whole of the flower, the cells in charge of certain functions such as to pull the water and nutrients... flowers like sunflowers following the sun... could it still be aware? Not that the flower would feel pain if there was a drought... but would it know its going to wilt...
(not being really serious, not meaning to change subject - but its a fun little brain exercise)

but yeah... i mean to get at... the flower is part of an intricate cycle... it provides bees with nectar for honey... its pleasant to smell (so long as you arent allergic)
but i mean...

so i agree... i just am... and as i am... as we all are... the one thing we cant avoid... is gaining experiences...

@sarathustrah,

sarathustrah, Smile

Are you inferring that reproduction supplies a meaning to life, life is alot of protoplasma with an urge to reproduce, that is not meaning in my book, that is utterly mindless. You have a strange idea of what consciousness is, wherever consciousness began, its inception had to be a truely simple principle, the later development of complexity really should not hide that fact. I believe that principle is effective of the concept of order itself, but perhaps in its germ stage leading to the development of consciousness, certainly consciousness is dependent upon the physical world as object for it existence, and seeing as all organism have there object as the physical world, I think it save to say there is a degree of consciouness there. You do not make your case for meaning, it is not enough that it would nice. The physcial world in general is entirely without meaning, this is kind of a nihilistic insight, it is the subject/consciousness that supplies that meaning, and its sources for the formation of meaning are the needs, wants and experiences of its own biology.

@Kreist,

Kreist wrote:

John Templeton Foundation : Does the Universe Have a Purpose?

an interesting collection of essays from people in various fields on what they think about this question. this seemed like the best forum for this. does anyone have any thoughts on the responses here, or any responses of your own?

Yes, IMO the universe has a purpose. To continue, expand, unfold and evolve harmonically, precisely and perfectly with us in tack. It could be, we are it's purpose. Who knows. I didn't read any of the other opinions on the Templeton site to see if any were in agreement.
William

@Kreist,

boagie... i was bein kinda silly... i only used the reproduction thing to nitpick about a flower being more than just being...

i do maintain that the purpose of life is experience, for conscious beings at least, but thats personal opinion based solely on the fact its the one thing that a conscious being cant avoid...

the meaning of life could be taken in a different way than the purpose... a meaning being why... a purpose being what is to be accomplished... in my translation at least...

the line between what is conscious and what is not is something i dont know, and play-think about.

@sarathustrah,

sarathustrah; Smile

I think your hedging around what might be the function of life, that is fair enough, to me the function of life is to live it in the best way you can, that is innate self-interest. However in a reality where there is no meaning whatsoever to the physcial world, the only meaning to our lives is what we provided it with, as an individual and as a collective community.

@Kreist,

Opinions... If they were worth a nickle, I'd be a millionaire...

@boagie,

boagie wrote:

Kreist,

For the universe to have a purpose would it not have to be aware of something outside itself, this would only be possiable if the universe was a closed system, and as far as we know there is no such thing as a closed system. PS: I see the above post says much the same thing.

Here's a happy thought. Perhaps the universe is the only entity whose object to do exactly as it does, as there is is no posssible external justification for its action: i.e. the perfect existentialist, or Nietzschean. I would think not though...and no matter...

@William,

The universe is based on organization. The universe works towards higher and higher level of organization. There are other forces at work, creative and destructive, and these go hand in hand, one works for the other. They say that if you bring a new object into your life, you should get rid of another. Creation and destruction work the same way. The entire time, order and progress is working in simultaneity. Once the highest level of order is achieved, it all goes back to the beginning and is created and destroyed again.

@Kreist,

Nothing is created or destroyed... Everything is recycled or employed...

@BrightNoon,

BrightNoon wrote:

Here's a happy thought. Perhaps the universe is the only entity whose object to do exactly as it does, as there is is no posssible external justification for its action: i.e. the perfect existentialist, or Nietzschean. I would think not though...and no matter...

Perhaps the universe is an entity.

@Fido,

I don't know if that's sarcasm or what, but let me just say that I use the term entity pretty loosely: could substitute for system, thing, arrangement, order.

@BrightNoon,

BrightNoon wrote:

I don't know if that's sarcasm or what, but let me just say that I use the term entity pretty loosely: could substitute for system, thing, arrangement, order.

Or non entity since as an infinite we cannot say it is one or many, or in truth, much of anything...When you look off down a road to where you have never been, do you think to yourself about what waits at the end??? We can presume much of what waits at the end of untraveled roads, but nothing as fact about the universe as a whole... We presume, we assume, we guess, we extrapolate... And we do not know, and should not say...

@Fido,

I agree, but that why I called it a 'happy thought,' not a proposition.

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