God's Mind

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alex717
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 05:45 pm
Does anyone here believe that perhaps the universe is purely within God's (for lack of a better word) mind? Perhaps the universe is simply a impermanent thought of his which he continues in order to simulate growth in his souls (us)? In order for us to learn lessons that only can be learned from being mortal? Such as lessons that include not just human physical or mental stimulus but also acts of evil that we inflict or can have inflicted on us? This is pertaining from the belief that in God's actual reality there can be no evil.
 
William
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 06:15 pm
@alex717,
alex717 wrote:
Does anyone here believe that perhaps the universe is purely within God's (for lack of a better word) mind? Perhaps the universe is simply a impermanent thought of his which he continues in order to simulate growth in his souls (us)? In order for us to learn lessons that only can be learned from being mortal? Such as lessons that include not just human physical or mental stimulus but also acts of evil that we inflict or can have inflicted on us? This is pertaining from the belief that in God's actual reality there can be no evil.


Now you are beginning to understand it my friend.:a-ok:

William
 
alex717
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 07:57 pm
@William,
care to assist me more?
 
William
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 09:25 pm
@alex717,
alex717 wrote:
care to assist me more?


I am not real sure how to link you to the post but it is post #194 of the thread "Do you believe in God?". I am about to call it a day and I will love to address your question in the morning when I am not so tired. Please read that post and perhaps it might shed a little light on what you are asking. Smile

Thanks,
William
 
William
 
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 09:00 am
@alex717,
alex717 wrote:
care to assist me more?


Whatever that "God's mind" is, we are a part of that. IMO. Insofar as we deem ourselves apart from it is the root of our problems. It is as though we have too much noise that will allow our minds to "meld" with that universal mind of God. Shade's of Spock. Ha. We can only come to this realization as we observe how inadequate we are. As I have said it had to be this way. Our live's have just begun and we have a long way to go and perhaps by experiencing what not to do, we would come to our senses and realize we are missing a crucial ingredient that will make us whole. You know "that missing link". Our biggest mistake is not doing everything we can to insure that tomorrow is better than today. We give it little regard in that we assume our live's to be limited, not realizing "we" will be "a part" of that tomorrow instilling in us to "get while the getting is good" as we give little thought to the mess we are making. After all we are going to be dead. Who gives a ****, right. A little crude perhaps, but I am afraid it is the truth.

Freeing the mind of man and releasing him from those fears imposed on him as he strives to exist on this planet is the first step. In our desperate desire to survive life, we fail to live life. Considering what is in store regarding what lies ahead once we come to this realization, is what life is all about as we truly look forward to tomorrow as we know it will be better than today. It is my hope all will share in that experience, but I do have my doubts. That's out of all of our hands.

William
 
sarek
 
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 09:16 am
@alex717,
William said most of it already. Those are very good words.

Let me just add this:

In my view God(or rather becoming God) is the purpose of the universe. God is the alpha and omega.
That means all of us are parts of the universe's process of becoming God. Not one part is any less than any other part.
Is all this really so much different from the teachings of the New Testament? It even says "you can only come to God through my mediation"
I think this is a very good example how philosophy and religion can lead to exactly the same outcome.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 09:17 am
@William,
What is this obsession to reinvent god because the old gods failed the test of logic...I can understand not dismising him but to create god in your image of him is taking it just too far...We have to prove the possibility of it existing first before you can describe her/him...Coming from a position of certainty is not my way of debating but i am open to open discussion..Like the old gods.. tell me one thing that you could give me for me to even start believing your god exists?
 
alex717
 
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 02:52 pm
@xris,
the creative nature of the universe for one, just ask yourself this, do you like the thought of you dying and becoming nothing? Or would you rather want to go to a place of paradise and be with loved ones... The faith is also hope, hope that we are on a road to somewhere magnificent, even if its just enlightenment. Logic and possibilities are just man's ways, if it were easy to believe in God then this world not teach anyone anything.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 03:00 pm
@alex717,
alex717 wrote:
the creative nature of the universe for one, just ask yourself this, do you like the thought of you dying and becoming nothing? Or would you rather want to go to a place of paradise and be with loved ones... The faith is also hope, hope that we are on a road to somewhere magnificent, even if its just enlightenment. Logic and possibilities are just man's ways, if it were easy to believe in God then this world not teach anyone anything.
I am not going to believe just to make myself feel better or give me light when the shadows grow...I can believe in an afterlife if i have enough proof but i dont necessarily need a god for that to happen...wishful thinking never created a god of substance just another crutch to lean on.. As for the wonders of the universe yes there well may be a creator but dont try describing him because of your attribution..
 
alex717
 
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 03:04 pm
@xris,
I havent given a description of him...
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 10:34 am
@alex717,
alex717 wrote:
I havent given a description of him...
Well asking me if i want to go to heaven describes him enough forme..
 
Khethil
 
Reply Sun 2 Nov, 2008 03:05 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
What is this obsession to reinvent god because the old gods failed the test of logic...


Haha, I love this question/statement and I too, in frustration, have asked myself that. Why do people do this?

I haven't any answer; not even for myself. But what the resolution that I've come to is that it seems to be fashionable to say god:

  • "... is everything"
  • "... is in all of us"
  • "... exists as pure energy in all places"
  • "... is whatever you conceive it to be"
  • "... is something I won't even give you my definition of"
  • "... is pure light!"
  • "... is the grace shown in mathematics, physics and the unity of the universe!"

And all these - not even presented as euphemisms! These kinds of lofty-no-substance definitions give this thing no value whatsoever. It's almost as if many of the fine, intelligent people who write here about this concept almost know in the back of their minds how absurd it is. Yet, they cling, as if somehow this self-deception is a good thing. But then I see this next statement; one I was VERY happy to see:

alex717 wrote:
... just ask yourself this, do you like the thought of you dying and becoming nothing? Or would you rather want to go to a place of paradise and be with loved ones...


It's brutal honesty, and he/she needs a hundred cookies and a copy of the Philosophy Forum Home-Game for this. It's something I think very few have the courage to say. In a sense, it says, "who cares whether or not its true, I choose to believe". Now, I don't think this is a good idea - at all - but it speaks volumes about the emotional need so many humans have. It doesn't matter how silly, absurd, murky or pointless the concept is (as a whole), the human heart asserts itself and reaches out for something.

To my mind one is happier, healthier, more peaceful, more compassionate once this whole silliness is shed. I can understand the desire to believe in "something"; but to me that does not make it (and such can be very painful and terrifying at first, given how we've been socialized). In the end equation, we all must do what our heart bids, no matter how it looks to others.

Nice point; kudos to the both of ya's
 
alex717
 
Reply Sun 2 Nov, 2008 08:51 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:
It's brutal honesty, and he/she needs a hundred cookies and a copy of the Philosophy Forum Home-Game for this. It's something I think very few have the courage to say. In a sense, it says, "who cares whether or not its true, I choose to believe". Now, I don't think this is a good idea - at all - but it speaks volumes about the emotional need so many humans have. It doesn't matter how silly, absurd, murky or pointless the concept is (as a whole), the human heart asserts itself and reaches out for something.

To my mind one is happier, healthier, more peaceful, more compassionate once this whole silliness is shed. I can understand the desire to believe in "something"; but to me that does not make it (and such can be very painful and terrifying at first, given how we've been socialized). In the end equation, we all must do what our heart bids, no matter how it looks to others.


My beliefs on the afterlife are vague, obviously. I'm not describing God or heaven. It's purely hope of relationships carrying over. Through intwining or enlightenment. It's not an emotional need, it's a want, nobody needs a purpose, it just is felt. It's what stops me from being nihilistic, it's what stops most people from being selfish altogether. Not the fear of judgment but rather self worth and dignity. If you choose to be some science thumper, and think our own little method is going to solve or at least somewhat logically ensure you the probalitity you made....you will always be empty. It makes you sleep at night knowing we are the smartest thing in the universe...? That's illogical. Science is bias, it just takes substantial spirituality to become aware. Those who haven't experienced it are the ones who's egos lay in their own observational fallicies. :nonooo:
 
franc
 
Reply Sun 2 Nov, 2008 09:19 pm
@alex717,
God already knows, there is nothing for him to learn.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 06:36 am
@alex717,
alex717 wrote:
My beliefs on the afterlife are vague, obviously. I'm not describing God or heaven. It's purely hope of relationships carrying over. Through intwining or enlightenment. It's not an emotional need, it's a want, nobody needs a purpose, it just is felt. It's what stops me from being nihilistic, it's what stops most people from being selfish altogether. Not the fear of judgment but rather self worth and dignity. If you choose to be some science thumper, and think our own little method is going to solve or at least somewhat logically ensure you the probalitity you made....you will always be empty. It makes you sleep at night knowing we are the smartest thing in the universe...? That's illogical. Science is bias, it just takes substantial spirituality to become aware. Those who haven't experienced it are the ones who's egos lay in their own observational fallicies. :nonooo:
Are you saying it makes you better person?
 
Whoever
 
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 07:45 am
@alex717,
For a solid and well known philosophical argument for the universe as mind, although not for God, I'd recommend Francis Bradley's metaphysical essay Appearance and Reality.
 
Khethil
 
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 07:46 am
@xris,
I'm not quite sure what it is that leads people to think that 'science' is some sort of replacement for silly notions of any kind of god. To me, both concepts/notions serve two distinctly different functions, have different aims and vastly-divergent appeals to the human mind.

Another disconnect is that somehow the absence of traditional god-notions or dime-store mysticism somehow equates to a nihilistic feeling; ah contrare!

  • It is the embracing of our existence as mortal - as we all collectively experience - that imbues us with purpose, meaning and hope.


  • It is the shedding of puerile notions of an afterlife that gives the present so much more value.


  • It is the acceptance that humans do evil and good that spur us to fight injustice, reward compassion and take responsibility for our actions.


  • It is the adherence to our mortality that causes us to value each moment. Life is so much more precious when viewed in its temporary condition; all life.

So yea, I just don't get it. But that's ok, I love y'all just the same Smile Why? Because we're all in this together and we have only each other. Let's live our lives, relying on and protecting each other because yes; this is most likely "... all that we are".

Thanks
 
Whoever
 
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 07:51 am
@alex717,
Until we can demonstrate that we have no need for God in our explanations of the universe then I suppose we'll just have to have faith in his non-existence.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 08:07 am
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:
I'm not quite sure what it is that leads people to think that 'science' is some sort of replacement for silly notions of any kind of god. To me, both concepts/notions serve two distinctly different functions, have different aims and vastly-divergent appeals to the human mind.

Another disconnect is that somehow the absence of traditional god-notions or dime-store mysticism somehow equates to a nihilistic feeling; ah contrare!

  • It is the embracing of our existence as mortal - as we all collectively experience - that imbues us with purpose, meaning and hope.

  • It is the shedding of puerile notions of an afterlife that gives the present so much more value.

  • It is the acceptance that humans do evil and good that spur us to fight injustice, reward compassion and take responsibility for our actions.

  • It is the adherence to our mortality that causes us to value each moment. Life is so much more precious when viewed in its temporary condition; all life.
So yea, I just don't get it. But that's ok, I love y'all just the same Smile Why? Because we're all in this together and we have only each other. Let's live our lives, relying on and protecting each other because yes; this is most likely "... all that we are".

Thanks
Im an in betweener...I think i have circumstantial proof of an after life through personel experience but by nature im agnostic...I may be deluded or in need of help but i admit i cant discount the soul, but i can god because he does not appear to me nor does his foot print...
 
franc
 
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 08:47 am
@Whoever,
Whoever wrote:
Until we can demonstrate that we have no need for God in our explanations of the universe then I suppose we'll just have to have faith in his non-existence.


There is no possible way to demonstrate that there is no god. The personal language argument means that god's mind can be anything, and taht another mind can never truly be known.
 
 

 
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