You mentioned how our evolutionary history is encoded in our genes, be it that it may only dwell in our DNA. Isn't memory part of our evolutionary history and hence a guide for the spirituality it encountered. The creation of immaculate conception, seems a little less unidentifiable if we consider that some species will endevour to self procreate to cover loss in adequate numbers, ( have I seen a doco reguarding this or am I simply remembering Godzilla and Jurasic Park, it may just be the sex change that does occur.) Some species do simply divide to create new life in that form and isn't it this that your point does refer too. If this is the case as you may put it, then aren't deformities remnants of our evolutionary past being reflected and yes I may seem wierd but the arguement you put forward, if this is the case, has more to it than you are portraying, at this point.

uranguatan,


There probable is more to it then I have realized, in fact it is more than probable, so, do not misunderstand me, I do not take any offense to some further exploration of the idea. I sense though, perhaps mistakenly that you are tryng to build up to some justification of biblical understanding, the immaculate conception was a very well worn motif before Christianity came along, but you are right, the oneliner in Jurasic Park that was of most significance to me was, "Life Will Find A Way." if life can adapt to living in a pot of acid, which it can, then yes, "Life Will Find A Way", is an understatement. There is for life an infinity of possiablities within an infinity of duration to adapt. We should however not lose sight of the topic of the thread, and that is the mind/brain is a secondary organ in service to the community of the body.

There was no missunderstanding, I thought I should question your point first, rather than leap ahead with my own tangent, which incidently doesn't pertain to a biblical undertone in so much as, I do not think this a thead for the discussion of religion and such, I simply found it a good reference to exalt the possibility of such an occurance in humans.

My point would be, that there may well be methods of tackling what one might see as an ailment, when for example the occurance is simply a primordial mix up, and looking at it as such may show a path to remedial energies being applied accordingly. If that makes sense.

urangutan

My point would be, that there may well be methods of tackling what one might see as an ailment, when for example the occurance is simply a primordial mix up, and looking at it as such may show a path to remedial energies being applied accordingly. If that makes sense.[/quote]


urangutan,

Well I have yet to hear the expression within the confines of evolutionary biology, primordial mix up, by this do you mean mutation. Remedial energies, well I do not believe energy has intention. I am afraid I am quite lost as to your meaning. Perhaps if you would be kind enough to rephrase your thought on this?



"When facism comes to America, it will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Stclair Lewis----------think Bush!!

Not so much a mutation as it would be more of what I originally mentioned and that was, deformity. In that we see it as a deformity now when in fact it was the lead up to the adaptation we now possess. In the wildest expression of what I am saying, should someone be born with a fin, we wouldn't see mutation rather a deformity or as I put it, a lead up to adaptation.

Sorry, by remedial energies, I was trying not to say the dreaded term of "Witch Doctor". I don't want to spook people, just get their minds working through a different pattern.

urangutan,

Ok, I think I understand now, this precieve deformity would indeed be adaptation through mutation, but what you are talking about is the understanding of this manifestation from a particualar freezeframed perspective. Actually I remember more examples going in the other direction as that which was once useful becomes a simple artifact of what it used to be, it has lost its function, the remnant signs of legs on the whale. You are probably right though, if some adaptation did occur to an individual which was not regular in its physiology it would be considered a deformity, one should remember also that most mutations are harmful if not deadly to the individual. If there was a adaptation of the lungs of an individual to deal with the polluted air, the benifts might be obvious to a doctor or a scientest but to the average person if aware at all, would consider it deformity.


Find below a link to the biology of perception-------The New Biology!!

YouTube - Lichtquelle2012's Channel



"When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Stclair Lewis----------think Bush!!

I think Doctor Lipton's theories and my example are working in opposite directions. Although I feel we have stumbled on to the same page in reguards to the awareness side of it. I like to think that the remedies, relief and or cure can be associated with how the malady should be viewed, rather than is viewed.

urangututan,

I am not sure I follow you here as well, how do you believe personal afflictions should be understood rather than presently understood? Are you saying that you agree that most or at least some afflictions are caused by the perceptions of the subjects environment?




"When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Stclair Lewis----------think Bush!!

I will say that medication isn't the only cure and often therapy is only easing the pain rather than being a remedy. Roughly a generation of eastern medicine or therapies have graced our western shores and we are only tipping the iceberg of the posibilities. Accupuncture is now a serious medical treatment and when working with feet, astonishing results have come to bare, reguarding the nervous system and the souls of the foot. Taking it a step further, manipulation of the bottom of the feet should bare results in posture.

In a nutshell, (that may be me in there), we are walking with dinosaurs and we do not know how to see that, let alone remedy the effect.

urangutan,

I agree the east has much to teach, but, this new biology perhaps has removed the blinders in that it points to the fact that its the energies of the body that are to be considered, something the east has been focused upon for a few eons. I believe as well, with this new approach that serious attention will be payed to developing a system, a science of methodology for changing ones belief system about ones environment if its is deemed a pathology. Presently with this endevor, the many many self help approaches have failed miserably, but, then again this might be an area in which the east has much to teach us. Actually it might be fortunate that east and west be blended in this new approach to well being. It is revolutionary this shattering of the determinism of predetermed genetic function. Something I personally have held for sometime rings with greater truth, context defines, or, as stated in this new approach ones perception of the environment defines and the truth of this thread holds true as well, the mind is a secondary organ in service to the body.



When facism comes to America, it will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Stclair Lewis----------think Bush!!
[RIGHT][/RIGHT]

As long as I can see that, when a mind is guided rather than led, your statement rings true but I think I would oppose if it is to be considered as though it was external of the health. The mind as the matter it intakes or the mind as the matter it digests.

urangutan,

Actually there is not much that is external to ones health, human biology is an open system, once considered closed to structual change, now it is known that human biology is open in this sense as well, it gives a new credibility to context defines.



When facism comes to America, it will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Stclair Lewis----------think Bush!!:eek:
[RIGHT][/RIGHT]

For the information of the vast audience who are reading this thread, Dr Bruce Lipton is scheduled to appear on Coast to Coast tonight, 4 Sept 2008. He speaks much better than he writes, IMHO, and of course as a rebel scientist causes some serious and deep thinking now and then. That is, if we think thinking either can be caused or is possible or both.

YO!
I should like to reconsider my belief in, "Where mind meets matter", and/or the biology of perception. I checked it out with somone really knowledgeable about biology and learn it to be a fraud. The most sucessful frauds always do have an element of truth to them, this theory will fool many laypeople. This however does not discredit the title topic, that the mind is a secondary organ, indeed life is possiable with just a brain stem or as in some creatures no apparent brain whatsoever. Man as an organism is a community, it is the community that built the brain/mind not the mind that built the community.

Of course we subscribe to only the true parts. Bruce has gone over to the New Agers, but his insight remains even though he has forgotten it. Your biologist no doubt believes in DNA as the brains of the outfit, which is the true fraud.

Fairbanks,

Well, I really wanted to believe it to, but apparently the man makes an outrageous jump in his logic, there should be a hint in that he appears to be giving a lecture on it to a university audience, this is stage I believe, and he has gone over to the less than reputable self help genre. If his peers do not support him, you do have to wonder why.

I put it down to age and living under the tropic sun so long. He has left his one true insight far behind, but he is happy. We do want him to be happy don't we?