The Morality and Ethics of Capital Punishment

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xris
 
Reply Wed 4 Feb, 2009 09:01 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
XRIS

President Truman famously said the Buck stops here (At his desk)

The ultimate "accountability" for the atrocities for the Nazi crimes stopped at Hitlers desk.

You can delegate responsibility but you can never delegate accountability

Yes without the mysterious criminal mind of Hitler and his depraved ideas about a master race millions of Jews would be alive. today.

How much better would the world be today if these remarkable people had lived. The contribution of by the Jewish people to the advancement of knowledge and science during human history is out of all proportion to their numbers Einstein is just one example

It was Hitlers idea and his idea only for the horrors of what he called, The final solution.

Stalin was just as evil as Hitler, but even this monster did not erect factories of death like Hitler.

Hitler got very angry with what he perceives as the slow pace of eliminating all the Jews.

Every action starts as a thought and this grows into words. Hitler stood before thousands and mesmerised them with his mad raging malignant malevolent screaming

My mother was Jewish so if I had lived in Germany or any of the conquered countries i would have been murdered just because i am half Jewish

A quarter Jewish blood was sufficient to sent one to the gas chambers.

Hitler was not some silly little nutter he was almost a demigod to the German people who were mesmerised by his satanic mind and thoughts

But you have not answered my question, if you captured Hitler alive, what sentence would you have given him if you were the judge at the time of his trial??
I agree the leaders hold most of the responsibility but it only takes one honest man to keep his mouth shut or even a group to say no.Switzerland bankrolled hitler and he paid them back in jewish gold so the finger of guilt can be pointed to many.If we had did killed hitler you might of had another nasty nazi with more intelligence. Circumstances create these monsters and history acknowledges the allies after ww1 bred the hatred and discontent in germany.I would have gladly shot his brains out but that would be through pleasure not justice and it would have made me a victim as well.A long drawn out prison sentence with constant reminders of his crimes..death would have been too easy.
 
Bones-O
 
Reply Wed 4 Feb, 2009 11:31 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:

What would you have done with this monster, kept it alive???

Yeah, under maximum security sharing a cell with a bunch of Jewish skinhead hardnuts. Killing 'monsters' is, in my opinion, a natural urge, a survival instinct of the social animal evolved for self-rule. We don't and can't have self-rule in societies of our scale so we must be a little more dispassionate.

Gandalf wrote:

There are some that live that deserve death, and others that die that deserve life. Can you give it to them Frodo? Do not be so quick to hand out life and death.


What that guy in the big hat said. The question stirs something in me though. We have talked of the deterrence effect of capital punishment, but leaders of nations or their pretender counterparts have been getting the short-sharp or equivalent for centuries. Yet someone always comes along with the same old ideas. If it acts as no deterrant to folks with the nouse to rule nations, I doubt it acts as such for anyone stupid enough to commit murder.
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 4 Feb, 2009 12:28 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Some times capital punishment is excessive and in some cases, it is not near enough... In the case of Hitler, while he is dead, some times the Jews seem to think we are all guilty, just for asking for justice for the palastinians..
In any event; who shall decide what is just??? What has invariably worked in the past is both sides, the injured group and the injuring group and deciding what justice would be...Among the Anglo Saxons, one could not even kill in self defense without owing some blood money... But the value in people working out justice for themselves is the ability and freedom to consider every part of the situation, with nothing excluded from testimony as law excludes, and the power between all people to determine their own fates...We leave too much to law... Do we get resolution, or closure... Does each person get justice...Is each person heard??? Is everything taken into account... If you murdered a imbicile, or an old person on their death bed, while their lives may count as much to them as yours does, should they count the same when it comes to punishment??? A child's life should count for more, but the old, having less of time hold their lives more dear... Everything should be taken into account, and even then we could not recreate the past, because in the past, people accepted fate, and it was a cause for Mercy... We need to find a new reason to seek mercy....
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Thu 5 Feb, 2009 05:47 am
@Alan McDougall,
hue-man
Quote:

I will admit to the fact that I would rather have Hitler dead, because he was such an inhumane monster. However, that feeling is based on an emotion and a desire for revenge. The one thing that separates the person from the ordinary animal is the ability to reason without letting primal instincts cloud your thoughts. With that said, I would give him life without the possibility of parole, and I would mandate that he get extensive psychological therapy to realize the evil nature of his ways.


Oh!! psychotherapy for a base beast, a monster in human form that wants to consume everything in "its" path!!

This beast lost the right to be considered human and like a raging malignant animal in your house you must kill it, not feed it., it will bite off more than your hand it would pollute your mind.

The psychotherapist would become mesmerised by its and will soon be saluting it in utter admiration. If it could control millions and millions by its evil one little psychotherapist would be no problem to convert. Cant you see that??

Have you ever seen a Hitler speech?

The hypnotic evil power he had over millions of people.

Even a minute or two viewing Hitler screaming on TV or in a makes a person want to stand up and say HEIL HITLER HEIL HITLER

I can not even use the word animal for this nonhuman entity, animals never do that type of utter depravity

Sorry but psychotherapy for Hitler is just about the silliest statement I have ever read
 
xris
 
Reply Thu 5 Feb, 2009 05:54 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
hue-man


Oh!! psychotherapy for a base beast, a monster in human form that wants to consume everything in "its" path!!

This beast lost the right to be considered human and like a raging malignant animal in your house you must kill it, not feed it., it will bite off more than your hand it would pollute your mind.

The psychotherapist would become mesmerised by its and will soon be saluting it in utter admiration. If it could control millions and millions by its evil one little psychotherapist would be no problem to convert. Cant you see that??

Have you ever seen a Hitler speech?

The hypnotic evil power he had over millions of people.

Even a minute or two viewing Hitler screaming on TV or in a makes a person want to stand up and say HEIL HITLER HEIL HITLER

I can not even use the word animal for this nonhuman entity, animals never do that type of utter depravity

Sorry but psychotherapy for Hitler is just about the silliest statement I have ever read
Well i have talked to young germans and they cant see how he ever bewitched their countrymen but it was the season the reasoning behind his rise to power.It was unfortunate the man who offered the most was the nasty man with the will to win .
 
hue-man
 
Reply Thu 5 Feb, 2009 08:20 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
hue-man


Oh!! psychotherapy for a base beast, a monster in human form that wants to consume everything in "its" path!!

This beast lost the right to be considered human and like a raging malignant animal in your house you must kill it, not feed it., it will bite off more than your hand it would pollute your mind.

The psychotherapist would become mesmerised by its and will soon be saluting it in utter admiration. If it could control millions and millions by its evil one little psychotherapist would be no problem to convert. Cant you see that??

Have you ever seen a Hitler speech?

The hypnotic evil power he had over millions of people.

Even a minute or two viewing Hitler screaming on TV or in a makes a person want to stand up and say HEIL HITLER HEIL HITLER

I can not even use the word animal for this nonhuman entity, animals never do that type of utter depravity

Sorry but psychotherapy for Hitler is just about the silliest statement I have ever read


Wow, man. This is not a rational argument against Hitler being allowed to live in a prison for the rest of his life. This is an emotional argument that shows a lack of maturity in reasoning. No matter how much you hate Hitler, he wasn't an animal, well he was an animal, but only in the same biological sense as you and I. Hitler was a human being, but just a very evil human being. Hitler was able to sway millions of scared, struggling people into following his nationalistic ideology of German dominance. He did not sway everyone in his countries, and a psychologist would not be swayed by such his psychological delusion. He notably suffered from mental illness. I don't know if a psychiatrist could help him see the error of his ways, but it's worth a try. Either way, he would be sentenced to life in jail without the possibility of parole, and I personally would rather die.

This same emotion that you exhibit is also responsible for some of the worst behavior and thinking. You must learn to temper your emotions.

When did revenge become a virtue?
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Thu 5 Feb, 2009 09:44 am
@Alan McDougall,
XRIS
Quote:

Well i have talked to young germans and they cant see how he ever bewitched their countrymen but it was the season the reasoning behind his rise to power.It was unfortunate the man who offered the most was the nasty man with the will to win .


Of course he came as some sort of a saviour to the German people, he got then out of their terrible depression and put millions back to work

At this point to the German people he became almost a messiah. But read Mien Kampf

At first he did apparent good, But remember the utter destruction of Berlin and Germany, he was directly accountable for that and there was nothing good about that

Hue -man

You are correct I got vitriolic sorry man!!

Silly me, I almost thought I was a judge in the Nuremberg trials

I am usually more rational, but I admit that this is one topic that gets under my skin and makes my angry
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 5 Feb, 2009 12:38 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Hey Alan...An ounce of lesson is well worth a pound of revenge... Take a lesson from the guy because very little has changed, and in this country, the US, we could have a Hitler almost any time... He would not have to be anti semetic, but that feeling is there... And the frustration of people is there.. All you need is some charisma, and a single minded obscession of just about any sort...
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Fri 6 Feb, 2009 02:30 am
@Alan McDougall,
Fido and Hue -man
Quote:
Hey Alan...An ounce of lesson is well worth a pound of revenge... Take a lesson from the guy because very little has changed, and in this country, the US, we could have a Hitler almost any time... He would not have to be anti semetic, but that feeling is there... And the frustration of people is there.. All you need is some charisma, and a single minded obscession of just about any sort...


Hitler was taught how to get millions of his side. He was really an appalling speaker, but his screaming ranting (so called speeches) lasted just a few minutes at the best

He was not an orator that could sustain any logical message , all he did was prance up shouted and yes screaming at his captive audience, gave his salute and leaving them mesmerised.

It goes to show how one can be mislead by the noise of great crowds and embrace nonsense

I once asked my professor what was the secret of Hitler influence, and he said NOISE with sufficient noise we become a group mind instead of separate thinkers

I can learn from you guys an believe me I do. Reading my own ranting post made my blush with embarrassment. I came over a little like Hitler?

Not all German were taken in be this little fraud.I think there were at lest ten efforts to assassinate him , by the German people that knew his policies were leading Germany down to utter destruction

But even debating him, somehow brings out the worst in many, especially myself

Sorry Guys!!
 
Fido
 
Reply Fri 6 Feb, 2009 06:37 am
@Alan McDougall,
One of my friends of years past had some German language and History, and he listened to some of hitler's speeches; and he was impressed... But that guy should have been good...He was doing it for years before the first war, through the war, after the war, in prison, and out.... The people reached a point where the weimer republic could not inspire them... Hitler thought of himself and his life as a movie, that is, detached from the emotion of the moment... And the thing is that we are not all that far advanced...The right sort of charismatic speaker with some sort of plausible economic message could do some damage around here too...The frustration and pain of this people could be pointed in the right direction as well as the wrong direction... We have not suffered some great defeat as Germans did, or a humiliating peace.. The Jews here are not so numerous, or obvious in government and all institutions for that matter... But among Christians the irrationality is so thick, and the rejection of rationality is so essential to their faith, that they are ready only to be united and we could have a right revolution or civil war in a heart beat...And, just as the South before the civil war, they are the ones with the best military training with their hands on nuclear weapons and a strangle hold on all our military schools... The rationals would have a hard row to hoe with that group..The nuts have the advantage...Just as in Germany, people here live much more in the world of myth and magic...The truth is a tough commodity to come by, and nonsense is sold by the yard... The natural laziness of people when it comes to searching out the facts meets at some point with the perfect willingness of people with some motive to hand them a false but plausible explanation of reality...
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 6 Feb, 2009 07:49 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
XRIS


Of course he came as some sort of a saviour to the German people, he got then out of their terrible depression and put millions back to work

At this point to the German people he became almost a messiah. But read Mien Kampf

At first he did apparent good, But remember the utter destruction of Berlin and Germany, he was directly accountable for that and there was nothing good about that

Hue -man

You are correct I got vitriolic sorry man!!

Silly me, I almost thought I was a judge in the Nuremberg trials

I am usually more rational, but I admit that this is one topic that gets under my skin and makes my angry
My dad was in ww2 he helped liberate a small camp and he served as guard at the Nuremberg trials. My grandfather was an old contemptible in ww1. I was brought up believing the only good Germain was a dead one.I managed to overcome that prejudice after visiting Germany but i do understand the anger that gave them that attitude.
 
Will phil
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 03:39 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;44248 wrote:


"This is an ongoing subject but in my country of South Africa where the death penalty's been abolished from law crime is now rampant and risen to unimaginable heights"

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Do you think that capital punishment serves more as a deterrence or as a retributive device?
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 04:56 pm
@Will phil,
Will;162853 wrote:
Do you think that capital punishment serves more as a deterrence or as a retributive device?


Hi Will, Both!! Both!!
 
 

 
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