Is masturbation immoral?

@salima,

salima wrote:

it takes a long long time to recover from being a catholic....i know, my mother tried to make me one. she didnt succeed even in getting me through confirmation, but it did me a lot of damage anyway.

what is immoral is the priest asking from behind a screen on the other side of a young girl in a small box during confession 'what exactly did you do? how did you do it? how many times in a month? or a week?'

Well I don't really want to criticise Confessionals since the Priests do believe they are helping people and almost never abuse their position and would almost always be kind.

But to be fair your post doesn't really answer the OP.

William wrote:

In my opinion it's just that, a release mechanism and not a recreational activity or it shouldn't be anyway.

Hmm; I see how that might be a valid reason.

Quote:

Too much of anything is not good for us with the exception of joy, and that is what life should be about. That's why in all my posts, I stress a need for a balance in all that life has to offer. Pleasure is really a very small part of that life if all else is in balance. I think self-gratification is getting out of control as more and more people become deprived of the joys of life, the more decadent they become dependent on self gratification for they get gratification from no other source but themselves. IMO, that is truly sad.

So are you arguing that excessive masturbation is psychologically damaging?

Could we examine/evaluate a typical Catholic argument?
Sex and sexual pleasure is an element of reciprocal love between partners
Masturbation involves selfish sexual pleasure
Therefore masturbation is immoral.

@Greg phil,

Self-gratification is immoral? Like... eating chocolate pudding? I'm currently eating chocolate pudding, that's the only reason I ask.

@Bones-O,

Bones-O!;64581 wrote:

Self-gratification is immoral? Like... eating chocolate pudding? I'm currently eating chocolate pudding, that's the only reason I ask.

Exactly. Surely we cannot assert masturbation is immoral and then make no qualms regarding other forms of self-gratification. This would be illogical. What about masturbation makes one even question it's immoral - from where has the stigma come? I'm going to assume the notion is based upon some conservative doctrine held by a religion. Are there any other sources for this notion?

William,

In terms of artificial insemination, I completely disagree with your views:

Quote:

For in my deepest convictions, if a woman cant or shouldn't have children, there are good reasons for that. Going to an establishment to "pick a child" is absolutely absurd and any man that contributes to that, in my opinion, is an imbecile.

What are these "good reasons" you speak of? Why shouldn't a woman be given the opportunity to raise a child if she is not physically able to give birth? I hope you're not implying these women cannot be good mothers. I know of two woman that had an abundance of love to give, but were unable to reproduce, and so they adopted. They now lovingly raise two children, and live happier lives because of this. This "pick a child" thing is positive, not negative. Biology does not define "mother", in my opinion. Actions do, and I don't feel we should deprive a woman of her ability to provide care for a child who may not have had an opportunity to be loved otherwise.

And why shouldn't a husband (who cannot impregnate his wife), allow a child into their family? I'd hope the husband would be understanding enough, that, if the woman seeks to become a mother, he allows her to do so. No, not just allow: Support!

@Greg phil,

Masturbation is contrary to the nature of the human sexual act. It perverts the mutual intimacy and fecundity of the act.

@Bonaventurian,

Bonaventurian wrote:

Masturbation is contrary to the nature of the human sexual act. It perverts the mutual intimacy and fecundity of the act.

Masturbation is complimentary to the nature of the human sexual act. One can do both.

Any mutually intimate couples out there ever feel their copulation perverted by masturbators?

@Bonaventurian,

Im just worried its the most posted thread today...Its disgusting absolutely disgusting habit...sorry but the subject brings out the giggles in me, i cant take it serious..I know its an essential part of life but it is still something like a manic expression of physical need rather than a an act of a civilised human.It makes us all realise our human desires are just comical interludes.

---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

Bonaventurian wrote:

Masturbation is contrary to the nature of the human sexual act. It perverts the mutual intimacy and fecundity of the act.

So you can honestly tell me you have never had a good hand shake?A J.Arthur..a hand shandy..oh do me a favour..

@Bonaventurian,

Bonaventurian wrote:

Masturbation is contrary to the nature of the human sexual act. It perverts the mutual intimacy and fecundity of the act.

Please tell me that you are joking. Masturbation is totally normal. Go watch monkeys for a while and I guarantee some of them will end up masturbating. Some animals lick themselves constantly, and you can't tell me that it is never done to pleasure themselves. Masturbation is just as normal as sex, and to say other wise is just another limitation imposed by power holders upon the people.

@Bonaventurian,

Bonaventurian wrote:

Masturbation is contrary to the nature of the human sexual act. It perverts the mutual intimacy and fecundity of the act.

I'm gonna need to ask 'why?' here I'm afraid: why is masturbation contrary to human dignity? I guess you are assuming sex is strictly love between partners and other is wrong, but I'm unsure how you justify that.

Zetherin wrote:

Surely we cannot assert masturbation is immoral and then make no qualms regarding other forms of self-gratification. This would be illogical. What about masturbation makes one even question it's immoral - from where has the stigma come? I'm going to assume the notion is based upon some conservative doctrine held by a religion. Are there any other sources for this notion?

Well I think the early Christian church built upon Natural law theory from Greek Philosophy and saw sex as a tool for procreation, so anything other than this is wrong - so some held, though not all. I think it became more extreme when Augustine discussed his views of conspicucance and how sex is the root of evil and is still evil except for the specific aim of making babies - he argues that sin only entered the world after Eve was created and she tempted Adam (mankind) to sin.
There is also Onan in the Bible (Gen 38:9-10) who was smited by God for "spilling his seed" on the floor thus implying that sex which is essenically contraceptive (including masturbation) is wrong.

Could anyone evaluate the typical Catholic argument I laid out earlier? :
Sex and sexual pleasure is an element of reciprocal love between partners
Masturbation involves selfish sexual pleasure
Therefore masturbation is immoral.

@Greg phil,

Well, if you want to bring up the ancient Greeks, I would say that they did not see sex as merely a tool for procreation. Man-boy relationships were very prevalent in Greek culture. Men would often take teenagers under their wings to teach them the ways of becoming an adult, and this would often involve homoerotic sexual relationships.

@Greg phil,

The RC church invent their views from mythological scriptures.It goes further it kills thousands every year by their contraceptive demands.

@xris,

xris wrote:

The RC church invent their views from mythological scriptures.It goes further it kills thousands every year by their contraceptive demands.

I think that they also do it to increase the number of followers they have.

@Greg phil,

Also, at the time of the founding of the RC Church and Judaism that it grew out of, early death was far more prevalent, so it is not a surprise that they would want to eliminate anything that may limit the rate of reproduction. To hold those same views in an overpopulated world such as our own, though, is totally ridiculous.

@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus wrote:

Also, at the time of the founding of the RC Church and Judaism that it grew out of, early death was far more prevalent, so it is not a surprise that they would want to eliminate anything that may limit the rate of reproduction. To hold those same views in an overpopulated world such as our own, though, is totally ridiculous.

It's in the Bible, doofus. It can't be ridiculous.

I've finished my chocolate pudding. I'm worried that it might be contrary to mutual intimate relationships. I ate it on my own.

While stroking myself.

@Greg phil,

I think this discussions going nowhere : i wasn't here to have a bash at Catholicism: I was wondering how you could fully justify masterbation. Resorting to comparing with animal behaviour or a merely egoistic argument won't convince me I'm afraid.

@Greg phil,

Animal behavior is totally valid in this case since humans are, in fact, animals. Also, religions seem to offer the only argument against masturbation. So, how can you not justify masturbation when both nature and no argument outside of religion seem to confirm that it is a totally natural act. Not to mention, I am sure that significant others all around the world are happy that their better half can pleasure themselves if they so desire.

@Greg phil,

Greg wrote:

I think this discussions going nowhere : i wasn't here to have a bash at Catholicism: I was wondering how you could fully justify masterbation. Resorting to comparing with animal behaviour or a merely egoistic argument won't convince me I'm afraid.

How about asking the question: "Are there any reasons for thinking masturbation is has moral issues?". We can't morally justify a non-moral act.

@Greg phil,

I can't see how masturbation can be considered a moral act. Sure, there have been attempts to turn it into a moral act, but based on mammalian nature, it seems purely non-moral. I don't think monkeys wonder if they act morally when pleasuring themselves.

@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus wrote:

Animal behavior is totally valid in this case since humans are, in fact, animals. Also, religions seem to offer the only argument against masturbation. So, how can you not justify masturbation when both nature and no argument outside of religion seem to confirm that it is a totally natural act. Not to mention, I am sure that significant others all around the world are happy that their better half can pleasure themselves if they so desire.

Well I think humans can think more rationally than animals, and animals don;t have moral agency like humans do.

And natural law theory is relevant even if there is no God.

but I gtg now but thanks for discussing on this topic

@Greg phil,

Greg wrote:

I was wondering how you could fully justify masterbation.

And I think the point many of us are making is that it's absurd to have to justify masturbation. If you sought to justify masturbation, you should seek to justify all forms of self-gratification. One shouldn't have to justify these things, in my opinion. Chocolate pudding, masturbation, playing video games, sports, etc. - Are we to justify all things that make us feel *good*, or provide us enjoyment?

We'd be here for quite some time, my friend. No, I think it's more important we acknowledge it's time to put to rest this silly stigma on self-assisted sex.

William wrote:

Though the family is flawed and needs a lot of work, there are no facsimile's that will replace the biological Mother and Father of any child, no matter what the "selection process" is.

I firmly disagree. I don't believe there is any biological connection, per se; a child could be lovingly raised by a woman who wasn't the biological mother, and I'd still consider that woman the child's mother. Likewise, I wouldn't consider a female that left a child the child's mother, even if they were biologically affiliated.

The bond you speak of can be had, regardless of biological affiliation. It is a loving connection, necessitated by the care giving (actions, as noted earlier), and I feel many mothers would agree it starts at infancy. By denying a woman artificial insemination, you are perhaps denying her of forming this bond. There is a reason women choose artificial insemination over adoption, and the reason should be apparent: Some women want to raise the child from infancy and form a deeper connection, a connection only had from holding an infant the mother calls "hers". A husband, I'd hope, would understand this, and love and support his wife, realizing her needs as a woman.

Quote:

Furthermore, let me add, it is also my belief, and a firm one it is, that no child, no child should be adopted by any facsimile of what political correctness today is recognizing as a family that is slowly replacing the traditional biological family such as single parent, and those that are homosexual

I'm sorry, am I misunderstanding you: Are you stating a homosexual couple cannot provide the same care a hetereosexual couple can?

@Greg phil,

Has anyone touched on the context yet? yes pun intended...

I mean like it can't always be proper... watching a public sporting event? During a funeral? While shopping? On the subway? ect, ect, ect.

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