what is a "good heart"?

@tcycles710,

tcycles710;92537 wrote:

Hello all,

Can a person do 'bad things*' their whole life and still have a good heart?

Yes.

tcycles710;92537 wrote:

What's the difference between a bad person and a good person who does bad things?

Opinion.

tcycles710;92537 wrote:

I don't believe in universal right and wrong - but for the sake of this thread, you know what I mean.

No, I don't. Hence my answers.

@tcycles710,

Then please explain what you mean when you say "yes"? What is a good heart?

@tcycles710,

tcycles710;92555 wrote:

Then please explain what you mean when you say "yes"? What is a good heart?

Exactly my point. What do you mean by a good heart? What do you mean by bad? Our definitions could be completely different, so we will be at odds with one another in this discussion.

@tcycles710,

A good heart to me relates to the inner spirit/soul of a person, and it suggests that a person cares about someone else. But it is certainly possible that that same person may not have the same care for another person.

Rich

@richrf,

I think the Maxim
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
is applicable here.

The problem with the 'create your own morality' motto is that it is not applicable. Morals although personal, are never personally applicable. There is always a third party executing the policies of morality, govt, religion, neighborhood watch, chess club, local streetgang, whatever. Good at heart is like the above maxim that attempts to say, s/he meant well. The same as giving a lame gift 'its the thought that counts'. We have maxims and proverbs like these Primarily because as part of the neverending number of third parties executing the rules of morality, we just feel sorry for some people or feel sympathy, empathy or something that makes us feel that we shouldn't judge that person's action on the action but on the intent like we do most everyone else.

@tcycles710,

I would be inclined to say 'no'. Of course there is no 'scientific' basis for this assertion, and so many people will say that it is then just a matter of individual opinion. This is one of the characteristics of the modern age.

@tcycles710,

I guess a good heart definition for me would be a person who is more selfless than selfish. But if they are doing underhand things I would start to question just how selfless they were being. For instance killing your opposition or lying to gain favor for something that is selfless, seems to fly in the face of the definition of a "good heart".

I think there can be some kind, thoughtful people in the world but they might not always maintain a selfless philosophy.

@tcycles710,

tcycles710;92537 wrote:

Hello all,

Can a person do 'bad things*' their whole life and still have a good heart?

What's the difference between a bad person and a good person who does bad things?

LT

I don't believe in universal right and wrong - but for the sake of this thread, you know what I mean.

We know people are good by their actions... We should first do justice, and not concern ourselves with what others do with the justice we give them... If we excuse not helping the poor with the excuse that they will help themselves to drugs we are justifying injustice...We can be good and do little, but if we do at all we should do good...

@tcycles710,

In my eyes, someone with a good heart is someone who tries to do what they think is good and morally correct.

I believe because of the presence of ignorance, someone could do what they think is wrong their whole life with the intentions of being what they think is good, but I highly doubt it would ever happen. He/She's gotta slip up and do what he/she wanted at least one time, right? lol

To me, the difference between a "bad person" and a "good person who does bad things" is their intentions.

@tcycles710,

That is perfectly true. In all the Eastern understanding of Karma, it is the intention which counts.

@jeeprs,

If this is true, then it's the thought that counts. How very ordinary, because we've heard it before, however, I'm under the impression that good is only half about the thought and half about the feelings.

I feel oppressed by my thoughts and feelings, personally. I can't do anything I don't want to, but I digress. I mean to say that a lot of these questions have to do with thoughts and feelings--about being honest with them and letting them direct us in life.

@tcycles710,

"Our life is the creation of our mind. The thoughts of today create the life of tomorrow. If one speaks or acts with an impure mind, suffering will follow in the same way as the wheel of the cart follows the ox." Buddha - Dhammapada.

A lot of the art of living actually arises from being able to see thoughts and feelings as they truly are, not as how we want them to be. It requires clarity of perception, and insight. These sound straightforward, but they are actually not common.

@jeeprs,

Adam101;94634 wrote:

To me, the difference between a "bad person" and a "good person who does bad things" is their intentions.

What makes an intention good or bad, though?

Hitler's intentions were atrocious, but we can imagine he thought his intentions to be quite wonderful and good for humanity.

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas;95231 wrote:

What makes an intention good or bad, though?

Hitler's intentions were atrocious, but we can imagine he thought his intentions to be quite wonderful and good for humanity.

I don't know Hitler's intentions, but I'm going to make up stuff for sake of discussion.

I imagine his intentions were to rid the whole word of certain people, which is terrible according to my idea of bad (i.e. that which produces more sadness that happiness). I assume, though, that his reasoning behind killing off all of these people was to rid the world of Jewish people, because he figured it would make the world a more happier place without them. I suppose Hitler COULD be a good hearted person that was just radically ignorant on how to be good. It's possible that his intentions were good, that he was trying to make the world a better, happier place, but the direction he went obviously wasn't good by that definition. He caused much pain, sorrow, non-comfort, torture, and unhappiness in many people and probably himself, too, but that's a longer, different discussion.

What makes an intention good? I think it's the want to produce as much happiness as possible--in everyone and in everything.

@tcycles710,

DT - I can't imaging he thought anything like that at any time. If you are entirely consumed by hatred and delusion, as he obviously was, you are incapable of framing a good thought.

@jeeprs,

jeeprs;95255 wrote:

DT - I can't imaging he thought anything like that at any time. If you are entirely consumed by hatred and delusion, as he obviously was, you are incapable of framing a good thought.

I can't either, but it's possible. I think he was a wretched ass human, personally, and I think his intentions were evil in some way and weighted heavily in evil's favor.

I should edit my post. I said I assume those were his intentions, and it led to the thought that I assumed his intentions were good. Please forgive me. = /

Maybe I shouldn't have made up stuff for the sake of discussion.

@Adam101,

Adam101;94634 wrote:

In my eyes, someone with a good heart is someone who tries to do what they think is good and morally correct.

I believe because of the presence of ignorance, someone could do what they think is wrong their whole life with the intentions of being what they think is good, but I highly doubt it would ever happen. He/She's gotta slip up and do what he/she wanted at least one time, right? lol

To me, the difference between a "bad person" and a "good person who does bad things" is their intentions.

You may mean their motives, and not so much their intentions. My intentions have to do with the consequences I expect from my actions, and these may turn out to be bad if I am stupid, or careless. But my motive has to do with what you call a "good heart". For example parental love, or kindness. So I may have good motives, but bad intentions because of flaws in me.

@Krumple,

Krumple;92623 wrote:

I think there can be some kind, thoughtful people in the world but they might not always maintain a selfless philosophy.

You mean Ayn Rand? (Not to single out Randian philosophy as a bad philosophy, but it is inherently a selfish one)

Anyway, though there are good people, not all people who seem good are really that way on the inside. You would be surprised by how many people attend church simply because of the social stigma behind not going. It is similar with philanthropy. To increase your chances, one might organise a community project or volunteer for X hours. College=personal gain, and that is the common motif behind such things.

A good hearted person in my mind is one who not only helps others, but helps them with meaning and a conviction of goodness, not only because they are forced by society to do so. Such people should also go above and beyond to help. Not just helping one group, but helping many people in various ways.

I see it as something like a good samaritan. Anyone who will sacrifice their own time for you when no one else will is undoubtedly generous.

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;95261 wrote:

You may mean their motives, and not so much their intentions. My intentions have to do with the consequences I expect from my actions, and these may turn out to be bad if I am stupid, or careless.

Yes, this is why I think it's possible to do bad things even though you had good intentions. A good person can do bad things. The consequences of your actions highly alter your feelings & thoughts about the morality of that certain action. So, it seems it makes sense that, according to our intentions, our awareness of the consequences of our actions, is what determines the good or bad "heart" in us.

Quote:

But my motive has to do with what you call a "good heart". For example parental love, or kindness. So I may have good motives, but bad intentions because of flaws in me.

I'm not sure I understand your definition of "motive".

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what is a "good heart"?

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