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The Myth of Moral Relativism
by Jonathan Dolhenty, Ph.D.
The purpose of this brief essay is to show that moral (or ethical) relativism is a philosophical myth that is accepted by no one who has critically examined its tenets and that those who claim to be moral relativists are really not.
I agree with most of what the author of the essay says. I don't know about his angry tone, as I didn't get that impression. The impression I got was that he thinks relativism is ridiculous, and that most people who accept the position aren't really relativists. In that sense, I agree with him because I've witnessed it plenty of times. Many people who don't seem to understand what morality is will say that morality is personal, individual, and preferential, but they wont hold that position in their actions or sentiments. A person who truly believes in relativism can easily be reduced to nihilism.
What the author argues is that people who espouse moral relativism act and say things inconsistent with their declared philosophical beliefs. So what? Many philosophers do that. Philosophers who declare that "time is not real" make appointments, and philosophers who declare that chairs, and tables, and vases, are not real, regularly sit on those very same chairs, and they place those unreal vases firmly on those unreal tables. And, furthermore, when that is pointed out, they don't think that what they do is inconsistent with what they say they believe is true. Even Einstein held that time is "only" in the mind, but he made appointments too.
Should we infer from this that philosophers are liars; that they are hypocrites; or that we need some investigation into the relation between philosophy and common sense and common human action?
I hear what you're saying, but that's not the point. This contradiction must be embarrassing if the only excuse for it is that everyone is guilty of it.
I agree with most of what the author of the essay says. I don't know about his angry tone, as I didn't get that impression. The impression I got was that he thinks relativism is ridiculous, and that most people who accept the position aren't really relativists. In that sense, I agree with him because I've witnessed it plenty of times. Many people who don't seem to understand what morality is will say that morality is personal, individual, and preferential, but they wont hold that position in their actions or sentiments. A person who truly believes in relativism can easily be reduced to nihilism.
I totally disagree, the metaphysical fact that we can only see our perspective and not reality itself would mean that ethical relativism is true. How we conceptualize reality in order to understand it shapes our perspective of it, the feminist movement was right to say that if the concept of rape did not exist we might call the process a reproductive one that helps preserve the speices and there's no way on earth you can prove that this is wrong except by judging from our normal perspective. But from the philosophical rapist's perspective where he doesnt use the concept of rape YOU would be wrong.
This argument proves that an absolute moral code can not exist since it can only be thought of in the form of concepts, and thus it depends on the concepts you choose.
Metaphysical naturalism logically concludes to ethical subjectivism, not moral relativism. There is a difference between the two, and I have stated it enough times already. Perspectivism is invalid for too many reasons to state here; yet another mistake that Nietzsche made. We can know that somethings are objective (independent of our minds for existence) and other things are subjective (dependent on our minds for existence). Truth and knowledge are practical concepts, and with that said I can positively state that the sun's existence is not dependent on my mind's perception of it. That is, however, another conversation that belongs in epistemology. Start a thread on perpespectivism and truth in the epistemology board if you like, but let's try and stick to the topic here.
I hope you'll excuse my editorial Hue; I'm just really tired of this "I'm pissed at the world-You're all Idiots"-tone so many posts seem to take these days. And yes, despite the essay's refreshing perspicuity there was for me the undeniable image of a diapered toddler, popsicle in hand, yelling at the mailman on his route...
As to the content: Yes... He presents a good case for those who believe there is no wrong or right - in any context - in our collective existence. But we need to make some very careful distinctions, lest we end up polarizing the issue unjustly. There is
- What is Right and Wrong: Many believe objective morality exists; bestowed to us by virtue of this or that.
- What I think is Right and Wrong: Just ask me, I'll tell you
- Issues that I think everyone should see as Right and Wrong
- Issues I think are so benign, so innocuous, that I'm not sure there is any right or wrong in them
- Does this make me a moral absolutist? I don't know and don't care
- Does this make me a moral relativist? I don't know and don't care
The label isn't important - the instant we apply labels to a ideal folks start taking sides, yet isn't life so much more complicated than to neatly-pigeon hole EVERYONE into these two distinct slots? I'm guessing that you, I and virtually everyone reading this believes there are just some things that *should* be universally right or wrong. I'm also guessing that all of us at this party believe there are those issues that just depend; that rightness can only be judged in the context of the action.
Yea, your author makes his point well - it's just that ethics is a messy, complicated business that's contingent on a myriad of factors. Our propensity - our need - to classify them into one or the other extremes seems to deny the most valuable lesson here: That the study of right and wrong requires us to abandon our camp-banners and think through the details.
I do appreciate your post - Ethics is always deserving of our attentions.
Thanks
If you recognise that your values, however passionately you endorse them, are simply yours and that others who disagree do have a point of view, you're a moral relativist.
There's nothing contradictory about being a moral relativist and fighting for political change - in fact, it makes perfect sense. Why even bother having a personal morality if you're happy to live under somebody else's.
How about citing people who do practise moral relativism, such as anyone who engages in a moral debate who tries to understand the other person's point of view rather than just say: "This is right and so you are wrong!"
No - that is not the definition of moral relativism. Moral relativism is this: X is right/wrong if any only if Y believes so. X being a moral proposition, Y being either a group or individual.
A moral relativist knows something is right or wrong when (if he/she is a individual relativist, we can use P, a cultural relativist S): S/P believes something to be right/wrong.
Actually, it is incoherent. According to moral relativism, moral improvement is impossible (see the definition above). Political change cannot be for the better (morally speaking) as something is only morally right/wrong in accordance with the individual/society's belief.
I think that's the point of the essay: despite what people espouse, no one actually practices moral relativism.
I wasn't giving a definition of moral relativism - take note. I was giving an example of where we might find one - pertinent to an essay that proves no-one believes in it by citing examples of it not being present. If you're a moral relativist, you reject the notion of absolute moral values without rejecting morality itself. In the context of individualist subjectivism, a moral statement tells you about the person making it. Naturally anyone interested in considering someone's contrary moral view is aware of this, as per my example!
Actually it's not, as your own observation points out: "in accordance with the individual's belief". There is nothing contradictory about a moral relativist having a moral view and wanting their society to be that way. It makes perfect sense... to them. We might disagree, and they might know we disagree and know we disagree because of our moral laws, but that does NOT dictate that they must live in a society governed by those laws. (See Khethil's 3rd example above.)
And that was the point of what Queen Victoria said: there's no such things as lesbians.
It's an 'if... then' statement. If X, then Y. However, your X does not guarantee your Y.
You've missed the point. Moral relativism is incoherent because it cannot account for moral progress. A moral relativist cannot say that any moral laws are any more correct than any other moral laws because moral laws are only right/wrong as they are believed.
A moral relativist cannot, by definition, have a moral view and simultaneously demand that their view is right because, according to moral relativism, moral beliefs are only right in that someone believes them. A moral relativist is forced to admit that his moral beliefs are no better than anyone else's moral beliefs. They are relative to being believed.
Except that Victoria had no argument to make. The author goes into a great amount of detail as to why he is right.
There are people who claim to be moral relativists, but the point is that espoused moral relativists are necessarily experiencing cognitive dissonance.
Like I said, I was giving an example, not a one-to-one relationship.
No, you've missed the point by a wide mark. I'm not saying an individual wishes the world to be as per their moral view because they're right, I'm saying it's because that's how they want it to be. Suffrage a case in point. A woman living in an oppressively male-centric society may well recognise that nothing is absolutely right or wrong, but also that for her and fellow women the situation is still simply bad.
Your argument gives rise to a complete contradiction: that a moral relativist should abide by what others think are moral absolutes, simply because the relativist's morals aren't absolute. That's clearly nonsense. I am quite capable of having a set of personal moral codes that I know don't apply universally and still act on them.
Oh sure. My argument is there are no moral relativists. Here's some people who aren't moral relativists. Argument proven. Not rigorous enough for me, I'm afraid.
Why? Because you can't comprehend it? What's cognitively dissonant about recognise that there are no moral absolutes, but there may be what's best for a given system of people espousing given local moral views in a given situation? Or simply what's best for me? It's really not that mind-blowing.