Happiness, what is it really?

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Seriost
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 12:38 pm
I think that happiness is a state when you just forget everything that's bad, when you forget your misserable life, but still my parents always fought it.
I mean, for example;
When you're at your "friends" house and you have this feeling of love and "happiness" (whatever that is).
It always ends by the time you have to leave or go home, doesnt it? Instead you're filled with hate or frustration.
So, my parents tell me that instead of letting the sadness be you're normal state, you let the happiness be that... But that just clings wrong with me.
If agony and hate is what comes over you when you realise how chained you are to duty, family and relatives (for example: You wished that you could spend the rest of your life with you're friend becouse you felt so much happier there) Then how can you ever just switch the sadness for happiness? Its the same as taking anti-depressive pills, isnt it?
You make an illusion that you're life is good, but when you find out why you take em' you get more depressed.

What do you think? Happiness is something unreal to me, since it only takes you over for a period of time and then leaves.

I have a feeling that people at this site doesn't attack you for you're horrible grammar, but please give me some critic if its about wrong spellings or these (Doesn(')t, Hasn(')t or You(')re) small commas or what it is. I just want to get used to spelling and normal writing rules.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 12:43 pm
@Seriost,
Dont worry about your grammar but im sure they'll correct you if that's what you want. Happiness takes time, you have to work at it. Yes going to your friends gives you happiness but it only lasts until you leave. Then you have to focus on your present situation and what will make you happy, what right this moment would make you happy?
 
Seriost
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 12:52 pm
@Caroline,
I think that nothing could make me happy at the moment, someone that stands out from the rest. I mean, im surrounded by people that doesn't treasure me, except my parents, but they do it the totally wrong way.
I guess that, if a person whom I can love for who he/she is, someone who's personality doesn't disgust me would show up, I would totally be happy by having somebody to treasure.
But the hope of such a figure appearing is so distant to me.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 12:54 pm
@Seriost,
It maybe closer than you think and in my experience it happens when you least expect it. Ok so you cant get a girl/boy whatever, so concentrate on making friends.

---------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 PM ----------

Hey Seriost, i have to pop out for a few hours, catch you later?
Stay on the forum, have a look round:)
 
Seriost
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 01:08 pm
@Caroline,
To be honest I would prefer a friend more than anything and I use the word love for both friendship and "love" if you understand me. I guess thats Anne Rice's fault, her books totally changes my view of love and gender boundaries, also my way of using words.

And I do hope you're right, I would do anything for someone at the moment.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 01:12 pm
@Seriost,
I don't know if it is possible to love someone else without first finding self-love. Happiness seems to be incorporated in this concept of self-love. This is both a state of mind and perspective of the self. By learning the proper way to look upon yourself, you can overcome many negative feelings about life. Then you can work on forming meaningful and fulfilling relationships with others.
 
Seriost
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 01:22 pm
@Theaetetus,
I've read about that many times and it is something that constantly pops up if you are a christian, since its in the bible when god compares the love from us to him or our neighbors. But I just cant find a deeper reason why that would be true since I've had relations that longed during dark periods.
I can totally love someone even if I dislike myself but I can't figure out if by the time I love someone I do love myself. Sometimes im scared by the thought that im looking down on everyone, that im a little narcsistic. But that cannot be the truth, becouse I do love others, or I mean I did love others... This whole complexity just annoys me, if someone could come up with an easy explanation why I need to love myself to love others* I would buy it.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 02:25 pm
@Seriost,
Happiness is the tendency of a being to have its appetites and intentions fulfilled. It is the state of mind representative of contentment, satisfaction, pleasure, or joy.
 
Seriost
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 02:34 pm
@hue-man,
Happiness can come even if you're intentions arent fullfilled dont you think? Happiness is a state I believe. Becouse sadness never leaves until you're happy, and once you're not. You're just sad again.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 02:40 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man wrote:
Happiness is the tendency of a being to have its appetites and intentions fulfilled.


I would not call this happiness. What you describe is satisfaction. For example, lets say that you are hungry, and you fulfill that appetite by eating. You have satisfied the appetite hunger. But this is only a short lived phenomenon that is fleeting. Happiness is more stable and does not waver with appetite changes.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2009 03:08 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
I would not call this happiness. What you describe is satisfaction. For example, lets say that you are hungry, and you fulfill that appetite by eating. You have satisfied the appetite hunger. But this is only a short lived phenomenon that is fleeting. Happiness is more stable and does not waver with appetite changes.


I would agree that happiness entails more than satisfaction of one's appetites, but happiness does entail some degree of satisfaction. Contentment and satisfaction are good terms for describing happiness as being more stable and non-wavering. However, happiness can waver when certain appetites are not fulfilled. For example, if I go weeks without food, I will certainly be unhappy.


---------- Post added at 05:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------

Seriost wrote:
Happiness can come even if you're intentions arent fullfilled dont you think? Happiness is a state I believe. Becouse sadness never leaves until you're happy, and once you're not. You're just sad again.


Maybe happiness can come when your intentions are not fulfilled. However, self-fulfillment is a big part of being happy and content. If one has not fulfilled their intentions, then they are unlikely to feel content. Can you feel content without self-fulfillment? Can you be content while still having a self-assigned purpose or goal? Can you be dissatisfied and still be happy?
 
Seriost
 
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2009 03:30 am
@hue-man,
hue-man wrote:
Can you be dissatisfied and still be happy?


Don't get me wrong, But most (religious) people force themselves to be happy, that's really inappropriate but it works, right? And it does make you happy. Sometimes...
 
hue-man
 
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2009 11:09 am
@Seriost,
Seriost wrote:
Dont get me wrong, But most (religious) people force themselfs to be happy, thats really inappropriate but it works, right? And it does make you happy. Sometimes...


I've met plenty of people who had faith, but it wasn't the main thing that made them happy. Their happiness was mostly dependent on their situation or circumstance. In the face of misfortune, I prefer the optimism that is yielded by wisdom and fortitude instead of the empty hope that is yielded by fideist faith.

Happiness comes in measures, and sometimes situational or circumstantial forces can naturally limit the amount of a being's happiness.
 
grasshopper
 
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 08:59 am
@Seriost,
I have to love myself first because i can only learn 'what-happiness-is' by trying myself, you can't understand it by reading from a book but you got to try it. But since you all people are my creations, it would be the same thing to love myself or to love you. I love you all!

Happiness is
sometimes the period that i wait until i get something i want so much.
sometimes the moment i get it.

now i am waiting for month to pass and than depeche mode will be here- now i feel happy because i will go to the concert. the moment i bought the ticket was also a happy moment for me. when dave gahan will sing ' enjooy the silence' i will be x15 more happy than i am now.
 
YumClock
 
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 09:26 pm
@Seriost,
Happiness is, indeed, merely a reward for filling some sort of need.
You need other people. Likely to have help when you were defending your pathetic cave from some lion species some million years ago.
You are, in a different way, happy when you become full.

The certain type of need fulfillment we call "happiness" specifically is also the one that can be sustained the longest. If you're truly realistic or hopelessly insane, you can convince yourself that you've fulfilled the most important requirements (partnership, wealth, health) and thus, you're happy.
 
grimm psykos
 
Reply Mon 20 Apr, 2009 09:55 pm
@YumClock,
As was probably said, there are different types of happiness. The way I categorize them (seeing as I have no other reference, and being an egocentric being) I feel happiness can be categorized in three ways. Different feelings of fulfillment, so I suppose this is what you would call happiness.

There is, of course, moral fulfillment; this is when you feel you have accomplished a duty or a task that you were obligated to do, or when you feel you have abided by your perception of social moral mores - like helping an old lady across the street, etc.

And then the "Id" fulfillment (for lack of better name); this would be fulfilling any of your needs. Instinctual needs, such eating, procreating, or keeping fit (all of which are needed for survival.)

And the last would be what I consider mental fulfillment. This can be some sort of outlet such as writing, drawing, cooking, etc. philosophy included. Basically anything that exercises the intellect.

Any action can be categorized in these ways. Eating is Id fulfillment, such is a given, but it can also be mental fulfillment. For example, eating certain things can make you feel "good" or "bad" - this shows the influence the simple act of eating has over you. Similarly, most actions can be placed in two categories at once. The key, for me at least, is keeping a balance between the three. There are some days when ignoring the Id fulfillment and moral fulfillment in favor of mental fulfillment makes me happy. Other times, not so much.
 
YumClock
 
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 12:04 pm
@Seriost,
Them old high school health triangles!

Well, since (as Grimm put it) you can merely "feel" that happiness is some way or another, we're not going to get very far categorizing happiness.

Why do some think happiness is more than fulfillment? I personally think that is merely a grab towards "meaning" in life, but I'd love for someone to prove me wrong.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 01:35 pm
@Seriost,
Seriost;57723 wrote:
I think that happiness is a state when you just forget everything that's bad, when you forget your misserable life, but still my parents always fought it.
I mean, for example;
When you're at your "friends" house and you have this feeling of love and "happiness" (whatever that is).
It always ends by the time you have to leave or go home, doesnt it? Instead you're filled with hate or frustration.
So, my parents tell me that instead of letting the sadness be you're normal state, you let the happiness be that... But that just clings wrong with me.
If agony and hate is what comes over you when you realise how chained you are to duty, family and relatives (for example: You wished that you could spend the rest of your life with you're friend becouse you felt so much happier there) Then how can you ever just switch the sadness for happiness? Its the same as taking anti-depressive pills, isnt it?
You make an illusion that you're life is good, but when you find out why you take em' you get more depressed.

What do you think? Happiness is something unreal to me, since it only takes you over for a period of time and then leaves.

I have a feeling that people at this site doesn't attack you for you're horrible grammar, but please give me some critic if its about wrong spellings or these (Doesn(')t, Hasn(')t or You(')re) small commas or what it is. I just want to get used to spelling and normal writing rules.


Sorry to be cynical... :brickwall:
Happiness is chemicals in the brain, released when humans do something that used to increase the chance of survival in the early times of man.
Eat, reproduce, be with your "tribe".
 
hue-man
 
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 02:21 pm
@EmperorNero,
NoEmperorNero wrote:
Sorry to be cynical... :brickwall:
Happiness is chemicals in the brain, released when humans do something that used to increase the chance of survival in the early times of man.
Eat, reproduce, be with your "tribe".


It's no secret that happiness can be reduced to neurochemical functions of the brain, and that its reason for evolving goes back to our more primitive past. However, what makes a modern person happy can be very different from what makes a person living a more primal life happy. I can tell you that I would hate to live in one of those primal societies, with the superstition, bad food, low life expectancy, no hospitals, etc. etc. The very reason why we humans changed our lifestyle from hunter-gatherer to agriculturalist was to increase our sense of contentment and well being. The ancient cynics may not have minded living in the jungle and submitting to the sometimes cruel ways of nature, but I do. Because of our modern social environments, the ingredients to happiness are much more complex.

What exactly do you mean by be with your "tribe", anyway? Do you mean family?
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Tue 21 Apr, 2009 02:54 pm
@hue-man,
I don't necessarily disagree with you, this is just what sounds reasonable to assume at the moment.
My question to the alternative is: What else should happiness be good for?

In everything that makes us modern humans happy, I can see a reason for why that would increase a primitive humans chance of survival.
And in many cases still does today.
Or rather the other way around: We are still around because what made us happy, is what made us survive.
I think that notion is called neo-darwinism.

You noted that a more comfortable lifestyle makes humans happy, and I agree. Maybe one of the most important ways primitive humans survived was by conserving energy. Whether that means to shun effort, to not be out of breath when danger approaches. Or to limit actions that require more nutrition, through the largest extent of human history, getting enough food was the biggest concern. So a primitive human, that is happy from conserving energy is likely to have successors.

So it looks to me as if the cynical view stands pretty firm. Please poke holes with other examples.

hue-man;59258 wrote:

What exactly do you mean by be with your "tribe", anyway? Do you mean family?


Yes, I meant the people around you. You are happy to be with your friends and family, because in the old times, having a strong tribe made you more likely to survive.
 
 

 
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