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Knowledge=Virtue=Happiness

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I may seem to be not original but here I should like to express my view on ethics. It appears to me that the reasonable and "fitting-all" foundation for it may lay only in one's personal happiness. (I'm writing this keeping in mind bitter experience of vain attempt to persuade others to do or not to do things that I considered to be right but they not. Familiar situation, isn't it? Smile

)
Many years we were scared by the words: "If there is no God everything is allowed!" Is it not because those who have been telling this believed that human nature is wicked, sinful?:thats-enough: By telling this I am absolutely not going to make you belive in opposite, rather I'm calling for self-knowledge. I'm just calling every one to go within himself and answer: what is good and what is bad not for society, not for supreme being(-s), not for animals but simply for himself.
As for me, it turned out that everything I want I just have. Possesion of greater amount of material "goods" can neither add to nor take away from it anything. As soon as thou layst thy hands on them, they appear to be nothing for thee. Thou only returnst to thy previous state. So, was it reasonable to strive for them so hard?

@Eudaimon,

Would thee give them up or has thou not the courage of thy convictions? Happiness is not pleasure ..Where did you get this elizabethan thee and thou from the bible or shakespear.Hello by the way nice to meet you..Xris.

@xris,

:confused: I simply want to address myself or someone else in singular as long as I am (or he/she is) one. I suppose it doesn't annoy thee?
Pleasure? I don't know what it is. There's aspiration for happiness. And it isn't satisfied by any so-called pleasure. As soon as thou getst it, it evaporates.

@Eudaimon,

Eudaimon wrote:

:confused: I simply want to address myself or someone else in singular as long as I am (or he/she is) one. I suppose it doesn't annoy thee?
Pleasure? I don't know what it is. There's aspiration for happiness. And it isn't satisfied by any so-called pleasure. As soon as thou getst it, it evaporates.

I often wonder is a child pleasure or happiness.My grandchildren give me great pleasure and that pleasure is a prolonged happiness.Pleasures of the body are fleating but we crave them all the same.We must admit our humanity and then decide what gives us happiness and then persue it.Knowledge = happiness? not always.

@Eudaimon,

Pleasure is conditioned by our conditionality. What appears to be pleasure for me is not pleasure for thee or someone else. To realise this means to do away with this pursuit. Self-knowledge is also necessary: by means of it we can understand emptiness of pleasure for ourselves.

@Eudaimon,

Eudaimon wrote:

Pleasure is conditioned by our conditionality. What appears to be pleasure for me is not pleasure for thee or someone else. To realise this means to do away with this pursuit. Self-knowledge is also necessary: by means of it we can understand emptiness of pleasure for ourselves.

The feeling of pleasure is the same but the source maybe different.Pleasure, why should you persue emptiness , why should knowing yourself release you from the need of it.Pleasure in itself is no sin, life is short enough without showing pleasure the door.Many enlighted men never stop showing their enjoyment with life ,have you ever seen the dal' ai la'ma without a smile on his face?

@xris,

xris wrote:

The feeling of pleasure is the same but the source maybe different.Pleasure, why should you persue emptiness , why should knowing yourself release you from the need of it.Pleasure in itself is no sin, life is short enough without showing pleasure the door.Many enlighted men never stop showing their enjoyment with life ,have you ever seen the dal' ai la'ma without a smile on his face?

I haven't said that pleasure is sin or bad. Neither that I should strive to abandon it. (Altough it would be reasonably, since pleasure is connected with fear of losing -- suffering). I've just said what is true (at least for me), pleasure doesn't give happiness. By this I do not forbid someone to prefer it for unpleasure, since they both are two sides of one medal. Both have their cause within conditionality.

@Eudaimon,

Eudaimon wrote:

I haven't said that pleasure is sin or bad. Neither that I should strive to abandon it. (Altough it would be reasonably, since pleasure is connected with fear of losing -- suffering). I've just said what is true (at least for me), pleasure doesn't give happiness. By this I do not forbid someone to prefer it for unpleasure, since they both are two sides of one medal. Both have their cause within conditionality.

Some pleasure is transient but not all and should we try to rise above it? why ?We are creatures of this world, self examination is the road to depression and gloom...

@xris,

xris wrote:

Would thee give them up or has thou not the courage of thy convictions? Happiness is not pleasure ..Where did you get this elizabethan thee and thou from the bible or shakespear.Hello by the way nice to meet you..Xris.

Hahahaha... thanks Xris, tea all over my keyboard now

@Eudaimon,

Love the accent.

@Elmud,

Yes, pleasure and happiness are two very different concepts. Just the other day the class and I were critiquing eachother`s poetry assignments. And every poem I had to critique was about death or suicide or roses.

We are so isolated, there is no virtue in pleasure, because western society has all the pleasure in the world. But no.... not any joy at all.

It is the ego which brings pleasure, not joy, and we have a constitution just to uphold our self glorification in such latent yet 'normative' conduct/ideals, which itself is an ideal to meet. Joy comes from a carefree attitude. I think blithe might have something to do with virtue. Not bliss, but rather the carefree blithe.

@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401 wrote:

Yes, pleasure and happiness are two very different concepts. Just the other day the class and I were critiquing eachother`s poetry assignments. And every poem I had to critique was about death or suicide or roses.

We are so isolated, there is no virtue in pleasure, because western society has all the pleasure in the world. But no.... not any joy at all.

It is the ego which brings pleasure, not joy, and we have a constitution just to uphold our self glorification in such latent yet 'normative' conduct/ideals, which itself is an ideal to meet. Joy comes from a carefree attitude. I think blithe might have something to do with virtue. Not bliss, but rather the carefree blithe.

Sounds like dancing through fields of golden daffodiles, nude with gay abadon and a stupid grin on your face..blithe..

@xris,

Good evening, Xris

xris wrote:

Some pleasure is transient but not all and should we try to rise above it? why ?We are creatures of this world, self examination is the road to depression and gloom...

Why should we rise above? In fact, we are above. Self-examination helps to understand this.
But if it pleases thee, I may say why. Is it not evident that persuit for pleasures inevitably begets suffering? If one is free from craving, he is free from grief.

@Eudaimon,

Eudaimon wrote:

Good evening, Xris

Why should we rise above? In fact, we are above. Self-examination helps to understand this.
But if it pleases thee, I may say why. Is it not evident that persuit for pleasures inevitably begets suffering? If one is free from craving, he is free from grief.

Sorry but why should i avoid pleasure? I know it is fleeting but so is life .I dont crave pleasure or its excesses and i think i know myself. I am a weak self serving pleasure seeking pig, no honestly if life serves me a moments pleasure i am grateful and accept it gratefully.Some pleasures give you pain and recriminations or may even kill you , its the quality and quantity that leads to happiness.

@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401 wrote:

It is the ego which brings pleasure, not joy, and we have a constitution just to uphold our self glorification in such latent yet 'normative' conduct/ideals, which itself is an ideal to meet. Joy comes from a carefree attitude. I think blithe might have something to do with virtue. Not bliss, but rather the carefree blithe.

Joy, as I understand it, comes spontaneously, yet not, of course, from bodily pleasures. I should rather name its source sth. like "spiritual pleasure". This can't be a purpose of life to seek for even such pleasures, otherwise they will turn out to be just like those of body. There is something more fundamental than even joy or delight. This is peace, tranquillity.

@xris,

xris wrote:

Sorry but why should i avoid pleasure? I know it is fleeting but so is life .I dont crave pleasure or its excesses and i think i know myself. I am a weak self serving pleasure seeking pig, no honestly if life serves me a moments pleasure i am grateful and accept it gratefully.Some pleasures give you pain and recriminations or may even kill you , its the quality and quantity that leads to happiness.

Ah, I suppose I may only repeat what I have just said:

Eudaimon wrote:

I haven't said that pleasure is sin or bad. Neither that I should strive to abandon it. (Altough it would be reasonably, since pleasure is connected with fear of losing -- suffering). I've just said what is true (at least for me), pleasure doesn't give happiness. By this I do not forbid someone to prefer it for unpleasure, since they both are two sides of one medal. Both have their cause within conditionality.

If one does not want to abandon that crazy strife for pleasures, if he will not realise their meaninglessness, that it can't give him more than he already has, he will forever abide in thralldom: circumstances will be his masters.

@Eudaimon,

There is also a sort of things that people consider to be pleasure, whereas they can't be called even by this name. I mean different drugs that people like to consume: alcohol, cigarettes, weed and sex in all its forms:thats-enough: . All this beclouds mind and prevents even mere possibility to apprehend truth.

@Eudaimon,

Eudaimon wrote:

There is also a sort of things that people consider to be pleasure, whereas they can't be called even by this name. I mean different drugs that people like to consume: alcohol, cigarettes, weed and sex in all its forms:thats-enough: . All this beclouds mind and prevents even mere possibility to apprehend truth.

BUTwhat makes you happy..

@Eudaimon,

Happiness, as I understand it, is freedom from suffering. It can't be given by any thing.

@Eudaimon,

Eudaimon wrote:

Happiness, as I understand it, is freedom from suffering. It can't be given by any thing.

I asked what makes you happy..or are you never happy..???

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