Eugenics-your opinions

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Fido
 
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 01:23 pm
@avatar6v7,
The knowledge is meaningless unless people act on it...Usually when people know they have diabetes and feel their lives threatened, they have more rather than less children... Society should encourage them to have less children, and not treat the ones they have without the promis to not have more...It might be possible to breed it out of the population while keeping their healthy genes alive... But chronic illness saps money for little gain, and knowledge and technology that does not change behavior, and that we must then become addicted to is no blessing....
 
Abolitionist
 
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 02:31 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
The knowledge is meaningless unless people act on it...Usually when people know they have diabetes and feel their lives threatened, they have more rather than less children... Society should encourage them to have less children, and not treat the ones they have without the promis to not have more...It might be possible to breed it out of the population while keeping their healthy genes alive... But chronic illness saps money for little gain, and knowledge and technology that does not change behavior, and that we must then become addicted to is no blessing....


in the future we may be able to identify genetic options that would cause unreasonable predisposition towards diabetes or that would cause it to occur in all cases

but right now, I think we should only screen for known bad genes that cause disease in every instance or cause strong predisposition towards disease

and, eliminating these genetic options does not lead to other detriments

this requires an understanding of the genes involved

we do have a long list of known bad genes whereby : we understand how the genetic option causes the disease, that not having the option is not detrimental, and that the genetic option will always lead to the disease in question

I see no reason not to screen for these genetic options provided that we can deal with the technological hurdles of the screening process itself
 
Kolbe
 
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 04:58 pm
@avatar6v7,
Though it wouldn't be actively encouraged, wouldn't the knowledge of the positive or negative results of genetic screening affect some peoples perceptions of them? For example, assuming both relationships lead to married families, Timothy could either go out with Samantha or Amy. Samantha has a genetic defect meaning that her child would have a 50% chance of having, say, autism. Amy does not. Would Timothy's choice be affected if he too planned for the relationship to lead to children?
 
Fido
 
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 07:26 pm
@Abolitionist,
Abolitionist wrote:
in the future we may be able to identify genetic options that would cause unreasonable predisposition towards diabetes or that would cause it to occur in all cases

but right now, I think we should only screen for known bad genes that cause disease in every instance or cause strong predisposition towards disease

and, eliminating these genetic options does not lead to other detriments

this requires an understanding of the genes involved

we do have a long list of known bad genes whereby : we understand how the genetic option causes the disease, that not having the option is not detrimental, and that the genetic option will always lead to the disease in question

I see no reason not to screen for these genetic options provided that we can deal with the technological hurdles of the screening process itself

All I know is, that if you treat genetic diseases you invariably end up with more of it...It cannot be left to individuals and to scientists... There has to be a social approach to consider all options...I am not saying we are to the point of needing to ration medical care, but in a sense, the rationing we have which is unnecessary, results from an overburden of genetic diseases and life style choice disease, that means a lot of people are denied basic care when they most need it...Again, the need for rationing is a myth; but it is inevitable that when some pandemic attacks us next, it will get through a failed health care system, or actually develop in a medical setting because of insufficient resources...
 
Patty phil
 
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2009 01:21 am
@Vasska,
Vasska wrote:
Eugenics has gotten a pretty bad name due to the misinterpretation, misuse and misunderstanding of it. Eugenics, Darwinism and Nietszche's Ubermench have all been called the root of Nazism, or any other "non-moral" group that is active this day and age. But neither of them are primarily bad.

Eugenics in it's own way does not endorse genocide, etnocide, infanticide or other form of killing selected groups of people, like Hitler killed the Jews, and the shootout in Mumbai recently was primary on foreigners. However it is often used in this form by facists, racists and militia or government and thats why eugenics is highly ethical these days.

Eugenics is a highly moral and ethical debate. Who are we to choose who's to live and die for the sake of human advancement. But still I think eugenics should be taken, and considered as serious business.

The risks are high, but the payouts can be even higher. What if by using eugenics we create a new human superrace with IQ's of 189 points and up, immune for the terminal deceases like cancer and as a bonus leaving a smaller carbon footprint on the earth. It would be a great advancement for humans, and not much different from evolution. Humans and superhumans can live side by side, until finaly we have a mix that is better than the averages we have now.

The mindless killing that has been called eugenics to this day was primarily just people feeling better than others. I feel like i'm shifting towards transhumanism.


I disagree. Eugenics is intrinsically bad in itself.
 
Abolitionist
 
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2009 02:20 am
@Kolbe,
Kolbe wrote:
Though it wouldn't be actively encouraged, wouldn't the knowledge of the positive or negative results of genetic screening affect some peoples perceptions of them? For example, assuming both relationships lead to married families, Timothy could either go out with Samantha or Amy. Samantha has a genetic defect meaning that her child would have a 50% chance of having, say, autism. Amy does not. Would Timothy's choice be affected if he too planned for the relationship to lead to children?


that's where screening comes in

that way any couple can procreate and keep trying until they create an embryo that passes the tests

Kolbe wrote:
I disagree. Eugenics is intrinsically bad in itself.


I disagree the sun is black... you have to support your opinion or else it's worthless

fido wrote:
All I know is, that if you treat genetic diseases you invariably end up with more of it...It cannot be left to individuals and to scientists... There has to be a social approach to consider all options...I am not saying we are to the point of needing to ration medical care, but in a sense, the rationing we have which is unnecessary, results from an overburden of genetic diseases and life style choice disease, that means a lot of people are denied basic care when they most need it...Again, the need for rationing is a myth; but it is inevitable that when some pandemic attacks us next, it will get through a failed health care system, or actually develop in a medical setting because of insufficient resources...


you don't create more genetic diseases by treating them, where did you get that idea?

with genetic screening there is less of a burden on society - this benefits everyone
 
Fido
 
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2009 08:32 pm
@Patty phil,
Patty wrote:
I disagree. Eugenics is intrinsically bad in itself.

How can you say this??? Disease is universally thought of as bad, undesireable and evil... Treated, all genetic diseases will become more prevelent in society, meaning that if nothing else changes that sooner or later the cost of medical care will deny treatment for treatable and curable diseases, basic and essential care...Negative eugenics meant to reduce births to diseased people is only common sense... If you gave them treatment with a promise to not breed you would do society a favor...Otherwise, deny them treatment, which creates pain, and resentment... People have a right to their lives..People with diseases do not have a right to breed...
 
Fido
 
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2009 08:37 pm
@Abolitionist,
Abolitionist wrote:
that's where screening comes in

that way any couple can procreate and keep trying until they create an embryo that passes the tests



I disagree the sun is black... you have to support your opinion or else it's worthless



you don't create more genetic diseases by treating them, where did you get that idea?

with genetic screening there is less of a burden on society - this benefits everyone

It has been twenty five years at least since I had any college, but back then one statistic that came by was the fact that people with diabetes had more children rather than less and that was a disease with a genetic predisposition...The children are a reaction to a threat to mortality...Just like poor people have more children because they feel their lives in danger...They react to the threat...
 
Patty phil
 
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2009 08:41 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
How can you say this??? Disease is universally thought of as bad, undesireable and evil... Treated, all genetic diseases will become more prevelent in society, meaning that if nothing else changes that sooner or later the cost of medical care will deny treatment for treatable and curable diseases, basic and essential care...Negative eugenics meant to reduce births to diseased people is only common sense... If you gave them treatment with a promise to not breed you would do society a favor...Otherwise, deny them treatment, which creates pain, and resentment... People have a right to their lives..People with diseases do not have a right to breed...


I say you have a disease to treat other people as means to your utilitarian end. No one has the right to decide who's to live and who's to die. This not a world for the highly evolved. I'm sorry, you're no better than a machine if you thought like this.
 
Joe
 
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2009 09:06 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
How can you say this??? Disease is universally thought of as bad, undesireable and evil... Treated, all genetic diseases will become more prevelent in society, meaning that if nothing else changes that sooner or later the cost of medical care will deny treatment for treatable and curable diseases, basic and essential care...Negative eugenics meant to reduce births to diseased people is only common sense... If you gave them treatment with a promise to not breed you would do society a favor...Otherwise, deny them treatment, which creates pain, and resentment... People have a right to their lives..People with diseases do not have a right to breed...


Looks like you are suffering from superiority complex. I would be interested if you could talk about how Eugenics will affect society negatively. If you cant or prefer not too, I understand, but it would interest me if you could.

thanks
 
Fido
 
Reply Tue 17 Feb, 2009 09:27 pm
@Patty phil,
Patty wrote:
I say you have a disease to treat other people as means to your utilitarian end. No one has the right to decide who's to live and who's to die. This not a world for the highly evolved. I'm sorry, you're no better than a machine if you thought like this.

You are absolutely right; but it is, after all, ones society that treats ones disease...When society knows what diseases it can treat and which ones it cannot, it can act in its own interests... They took the handle off the johnstown pump, and locked up typhoid mary... It is the natural function of government to do good and protect from harm... But, I am not saying people should die, and if i had the power none would... Rather, people with genetic diseases should certainly select partners with a view to breeding the disease out of the population, and should be given every encouragment to not breed at all.. They are one person...If they reproduce themselves and the disease they have done no harm..If they multiply the disease in the population they have injured everyone... Because once a person lives they have rights, and all the more so because no one but an animal can kill their own without pain, and even they seldom do.
Have you ever read Oedipus at Colonus??? Here was this guy who gouged out his own eyes because he did wrong, and brought a curse upon his own people...When people sought to bring him back home to prop up another tyrant, He asked another hero for his help, and that man took Oedipus into a Sacred Grove and he never came out again... We need such honor that we will not willingly do harm, and Do wrong when we do wrong as Oedipus, knowing not what he did...Give people the information and encourage them to have less children...What is so hard about that...If they get out of hand refuse to treat them... No one has the right to poison societies genes... That is why we have laws against incest... It is not because it is fun... It is because we are already genetically brittle...
 
averroes
 
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2009 09:31 am
@avatar6v7,
There is a reason that evolution takes hundreds to thousands of years rather than a few decades. With such rapid hereditary mutations, who knows what could go wrong? There is the probability that this would leave many people disfigured after such alterations fail. Humanity is fine and enough of a threat to the rest of the world as it is. We don't need tree-trunk size arms and cerebrums with 200% capacity. I personally like my body the way it is. It's flawed, yes, but that is what makes me a human being.
 
 

 
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