Boxing is the utimate tragic art form

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kosta
 
Reply Sun 30 May, 2010 08:24 pm
I Box competativley.

I'm studying the Birth of Tradgedy aswell, I believe boxing is the modern artform that combines the dual natures of Appollo and Dionysus.

the brutal Dionysiac fighting encased in ritual and stylised movements.

its performed in a square cirlce, a square that is called a ring.

It lacks the finnesse of Greek tragedy though.
 
mister kitten
 
Reply Mon 31 May, 2010 06:43 pm
@kosta,
Boxing sounds fun. I've sparred with my friend a couple of times. His Judo versus my Kokondo Karate. I keep losing, but he has at least 30 pounds more than me.
What's your win to lose ratio?

I really am amazed by all the katas in my system; they are so pretty. Do boxers have kata? Is boxing Asian-oriented?
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 07:06 pm
@kosta,
Boxing = legalized violence.

It's proven it will cause brain injuries, that it is extremely unhealthy, yet it continues, yet it is still lega, only because of all the big money floating in the buisness.

Money talks, healhconcerns walks..
 
Deckard
 
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 10:25 pm
@kosta,
kosta;171105 wrote:
I Box competativley.

I'm studying the Birth of Tradgedy aswell, I believe boxing is the modern artform that combines the dual natures of Appollo and Dionysus.

the brutal Dionysiac fighting encased in ritual and stylised movements.

its performed in a square cirlce, a square that is called a ring.

It lacks the finnesse of Greek tragedy though.

I like the post. There is also a bit of the Appollonian too I expect? The Dionysian fighter makes me think of the crazy street fighter who just goes ape-shyte in the ring; he embraces the pain and lays it all on the line. The Appollonian fighter would be more controlled and calculating, ninja like, appreciates the grace and the technique. Put them together and you have one tough fighter.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 10:37 pm
@kosta,
kosta;171105 wrote:
I Box competativley.

I'm studying the Birth of Tradgedy aswell, I believe boxing is the modern artform that combines the dual natures of Appollo and Dionysus.

the brutal Dionysiac fighting encased in ritual and stylised movements.

its performed in a square cirlce, a square that is called a ring.

It lacks the finnesse of Greek tragedy though.


Excellent observations! And I agree with you on the Greek trag. Because maybe the only thing that boxing lacks is the Word. Greek trag. offers some sublime poetry...
 
wayne
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 12:32 am
@kosta,
I think it has been some time since boxing has really been the kind of sport you describe. In the last couple of years I have watched some of the old Ali fights again, I had forgotten what an artist he was, the fight against Sonny Liston is especially good.
I would like to see boxing return to the art form it once was, this UFC business may be popular but it is hardly artistic.
 
Soul Brother
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 02:13 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;171859 wrote:
Boxing = legalized violence.

It's proven it will cause brain injuries, that it is extremely unhealthy, yet it continues, yet it is still lega, only because of all the big money floating in the buisness.

Money talks, healhconcerns walks..


This is true. However you have to understand that for some people it is not about the violence but the beauty that they find in the sport, just as some on this thread have already called it art. people hardly do it for hatred or for the intent of causing harm to the competitor but for the love of it, you often see two fighters finish a spectacular fight and at the end hug each other to show respect and thank for the experience.

In my opinion violence is always bad but I find it that it is only when fighting becomes clouded with personal emotion that it is unacceptable and should not take place. I my self for example like boxing and MMA (not because I like to hurt people) but because it is fun and it is a very good way to stay fit, but I will always avoid violence in any situation, I will refrain from using physical force to the most possible extent and will hurt another brother only as a last measure.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 02:25 am
@Soul Brother,
Soul Brother;172031 wrote:
This is true. However you have to understand that for some people it is not about the violence but the beauty that they find in the sport, just as some on this thread have already called it art. people hardly do it for hatred or for the intent of causing harm to the competitor but for the love of it, you often see two fighters finish a spectacular fight and at the end hug each other to show respect and thank for the experience.
Yes, this is a very unfortunate ability of human mind, to see and reason what shouldn't be reasoned in the first place. It can be channeled to Stockholm Syndrome, it can be called selective sight, comradery ..etc.

All too many see only what they choose to see, which is why we have such inefficient society.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 01:40 pm
@kosta,
kosta;171105 wrote:
I Box competativley.

I'm studying the Birth of Tradgedy aswell, I believe boxing is the modern artform that combines the dual natures of Appollo and Dionysus.

the brutal Dionysiac fighting encased in ritual and stylised movements.

its performed in a square cirlce, a square that is called a ring.

It lacks the finnesse of Greek tragedy though.

I myself like the fact that boxing gives you balls, that sometimes 'taking' the hit is actually the best defence and even attack.
It is both a lesson in how to better accept a beating as it is in better administering one.

I will be starting it myself after the summer, once the cigarettes are gone.

Do you think it masochistic?

I had never considered the square circle paradigm.
Thank you very much for that.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 04:02 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;171859 wrote:
Boxing = legalized violence.

It's proven it will cause brain injuries, that it is extremely unhealthy, yet it continues, yet it is still lega, only because of all the big money floating in the buisness.

Money talks, healhconcerns walks..


This type of mentality bugs me.

Not only are the athletes choosing to fight, they are not forced to fight. Sure they might be bound by contract, but there are times when they are not bound by contract and are free to leave the sport at any time.

A person should not be forced by laws to prevent doing things with their own body, weather it be drugs, jumping off something, or entering a ring and throwing punches at someone who also wants to be there.

If it were forced, that they didn't want to be in the ring, then I might be able to sympathize with your statement. But quite frankly it bothers me that you would insist that it should be illegal because it causes harm to the body.

If you really want to go down that road, then just about every single sport would have to be outlawed. Football, skateboarding, surfing, mountain climbing, sky diving, rugby, hockey, the list goes on and on. Not to mention there are many things that are not sports that cause harm to the body, so should we also outlaw those too?
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 05:16 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple;172226 wrote:
This type of mentality bugs me.

Not only are the athletes choosing to fight, they are not forced to fight. Sure they might be bound by contract, but there are times when they are not bound by contract and are free to leave the sport at any time.

A person should not be forced by laws to prevent doing things with their own body, weather it be drugs, jumping off something, or entering a ring and throwing punches at someone who also wants to be there.

If it were forced, that they didn't want to be in the ring, then I might be able to sympathize with your statement. But quite frankly it bothers me that you would insist that it should be illegal because it causes harm to the body.

If you really want to go down that road, then just about every single sport would have to be outlawed. Football, skateboarding, surfing, mountain climbing, sky diving, rugby, hockey, the list goes on and on. Not to mention there are many things that are not sports that cause harm to the body, so should we also outlaw those too?
In those sports you mention, there are no such thing as punches to the face, nor points for knock out ..meaning it's LEGAL to hit the opponent in the face, thus causeing anorisms and minor bleedings to the brain. Sometimes these bleedings can be so sever, that it has fatal consequenses.

And you know nothing of human nature, one wants to do, what one does best. There's often this selfmotivational factor, which lies in most humans, people who will follow a career, people with competition instinct. People are not cold machines that can activate/deactivate themselves at will, those who can do that, either has an immense selfcontrol, or are psycoticc.

It's a basic primadorial instinct, serving you well to motivate you to hunt for food, even under harsh condition you will keep struggeling to achive your goal, it allows you to provide for a family, and the mother to care for her youngs. If that instinct is understimulated, it all will go to Hell.
 
kosta
 
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 05:54 am
@mister kitten,
heya thank youfor a your great replys
this 1st part is to mister kitten
boxers dont have Katas like in martial arts
we have set combinations which is a bit similar
i've won once and lost once boxing is western it evolved in england over hundreds of years

to HexHammer

thankyoufor your opinion alot of people believe that our society has moved passed violence that we are somehow better than violence

how so? violence has been such an integral part of our existence throughout our evolution

i think repression of violence is a serious problem we have

theres a village in Ghana called jamestown that has produced many very good boxers, boxing is an important part of their culture there

in this village if you are walking down the street and you want tofight someone you put your hand on your head in afist shape and if someone wants to accepts your challenge they return the gesture and you both duke it out right there

maybe we need a code of conductlike this? some way to initiate physical violence without the emotional violence, without thefightforeplay

shall we start one? what do you think?

a revolution
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 06:56 am
@kosta,
kosta

In Denmark and most likely in the rest of the professional boxing league, there are such thing as mandatory brain scans, to search for anorisms.
Such anorisms isn't just something that has a likelyhood of spontaniously appear, but caused by the heavy blows to the head.
 
josh0335
 
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 08:21 am
@kosta,
kosta;174624 wrote:


thankyoufor your opinion alot of people believe that our society has moved passed violence that we are somehow better than violence

how so? violence has been such an integral part of our existence throughout our evolution


That doesn't mean it must continue.

Quote:
i think repression of violence is a serious problem we have


Okay, but why must this be channelled through pro boxing? I'm being somewhat hypocritical here, as I used to box and am an avid fan of a few fighters, but I can't deny the brutality and danger of the sport. This is where the more skillful and naturally gifted boxers damage inferior fighters. If you don't know how to stick and move then you will get hurt by those who do.

If violence must be expressed, we can insist it is done in a way that does not inflict serious damage. So boxing with headgear would be a step in the right direction. Martial arts where shots to the head are not allowed, wrestling, sword fighting with full body protective gear etc. Yes, these sports also have their dangers, but in most instances losers will not sustain such damage that they can't function normally after they retire. It's a sad sight to see fighters like Riddick Bowe and Joe Frazier who can't seem to string a sentence together anymore.
 
harlequin phil
 
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 08:30 am
@kosta,
my friend called boxing "the sweet science." he loved and admired it. the odd thing is, we both fought full contact. i couldn't understand why, if you had feet and knees at your disposal, you couldn't use them, and why if you had two fantastic targets (legs) you couldn't attack them? boxing seems so limited to me.

but taken alone, with its rules of "only hands, only above the waist" i can appreciate it. i always viewed fighting (for sport) as a game of tag, where i try to touch you without letting you touch me. i never saw sport fighting (especially boxing) as violent, just an interesting contest that has direct and immediate negative reinforcement for mistakes.
 
Jackofalltrades phil
 
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 08:40 am
@kosta,
Boxing --> an ultimate (tragic) art form

Discussion of Boxing as an ultimate art form is a Tragedy for Philosophy.
 
Ding an Sich
 
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 08:42 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;171859 wrote:
Boxing = legalized violence.

It's proven it will cause brain injuries, that it is extremely unhealthy, yet it continues, yet it is still lega, only because of all the big money floating in the buisness.

Money talks, healhconcerns walks..


Boxing is steadily losing to MMA, which is gaining a greater hold on the sport community.
 
josh0335
 
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 08:47 am
@Ding an Sich,
Ding_an_Sich;174671 wrote:
Boxing is steadily losing to MMA, which is gaining a greater hold on the sport community.


People don't tend to switch from one sport to the other. Those who are newly interested in MMA don't simply give up on boxing. They are completely different sports.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 09:20 am
@Ding an Sich,
Ding_an_Sich;174671 wrote:
Boxing is steadily losing to MMA, which is gaining a greater hold on the sport community.
Hmmm? ..yes?

MMA has much more moves and techniques, so yes, no wonder, but that doesn't really relate much to topic at hand.
 
harlequin phil
 
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 09:30 am
@wayne,
wayne;171987 wrote:
...........
I would like to see boxing return to the art form it once was, this UFC business may be popular but it is hardly artistic.


i have to disagree. it is quite artistic, there are lots of subtle nuances that perhaps you don't catch because you have never studied or engaged in submission wrestling or full contact fighting. having briefly trained and fought in mixed martial arts, i can see the art in much (not all, but much) of the fights. it might look like two brutes colliding and hoping one still stands, but there is more going on.
 
 

 
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