Well, it does seem to me that if X is willing to sacrifice his life for Y, and if Y is not willing to do that for X, then X loves Y more than Y loves X, ceterus paribus.

The notion that intensity of love is unmeasurable seems to me to have nothing to say for itself. It is a product of the false idea that love is just an inner state of mind, and thus cannot be detected. There is just no reason in the world to suppose that is true.

Definition is measuring, how then would you define faith?

It seems a little extreme to measure love by the willingness to give one's life for them, but ok. I love my children enough to sacrifice my life to save them, but I would be horrified if I thought that they would sacrifice their lives to save me. Does that really mean that I love my children more than they love me? I think most would disagree with that.



Like I said there are too many ways that might be considered to behaviorally express love that very well might indicate something else entirely AND there are many ways that one can fake these behaviors that could indicated love. And love is entirely subjective. What you say indicates love is not love itself anymore than the light and heat from the Sun are the Sun itself. And as you know, light and heat can both come from other sources than the Sun.

Of course I can many times. But not, of course, all the time. There are many relationships when one party is far more loved than the other party. There are novel and stories about that sort of thing all the time. Not a very good rhetorical question, since it argues for the very opposite you want it to argue for.

I'm not sure that fiction is a good way to try and prove that you can or can't do something.

Yes, faith can be measured in relation to belief.

They are inversely proportional.

Hello All,

There is only one measure of faith, in my opinion. - Do you believe, or doubt? If you believe - there is no doubt! I believe in what I believe, and doubt it not at all. Therefore I believe in ME 100%. I know I have no doubt.
As soon as the element of doubt rears its head in the mindset of the faithful, they are no longer faithful. How can someone be 50%, 23%, or 99% faithful? They can't. The word "faithful" itself, derives from "Faith" and "Full" - "Full of Faith", not "nearly full or a bit full", or "Half full". Something that is full is full. Is it not?

Anyway, thank you, and have a truly brilliant everything, always.

Mark...

This is the meaning the parable: The seed is the word of God. Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.Luke 8:11-15

Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him. - Luke 8:18

No one is saying that you can get it down to a science. But sometimes you can tell whether one party loves the other more. We often have good reason to believe that a relationship is one-sided. And the more mature and self-aware people will usually admit it.

And, in the case of faith, of course it can be measured. I can evaluate which of my beliefs have justification and which do not. And I can also evaluate others' beliefs by asking them for justification. Of course, that sometimes entails a pretty detailed discussion, but it can be done. That said, of course I'm not going to come out with hard numbers or exact measurements, but I can certainly get an idea as to someone's reasonableness.

I'm confused by your OP. Are you speaking only about faith in metaphysical beings in your post? I ask because faith need not have to do with anything religious or spiritual.

faith


-noun 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in god or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology . the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

Well, it does seem to me that if X is willing to sacrifice his life for Y, and if Y is not willing to do that for X, then X loves Y more than Y loves X, ceterus paribus.

The notion that intensity of love is unmeasurable seems to me to have nothing to say for itself. It is a product of the false idea that love is just an inner state of mind, and thus cannot be detected. There is just no reason in the world to suppose that is true.

Can faith be measured?

Hi Sun,

Faith is having the confidence to trust in what you believe, and to believe that confidence to be trustworthy.

Have a smashing everything, always Sun.

Mark...

At least for the peoples of the books (e.g. Hebrew Bible, the New Testament, The Koran) Faith can be quantified and so it can be measured according to how much of The Word of God one acquires, understands and believes.

Consider Luke chapter 8

Well this could be interpreted as each seed containing the whole of the Word of God and as we shall see this is indeed the case but in answer to the OP there is still the suggestion that some have more of the Word while others have less of the Word which suggests that faith is, in a sense, measurable - Consider Luke 8:18.This is hopeful to most of us as most of us have at least received some of the Word - for example Matthew 7:12. By Luke 8:18 Faith will grow deeper for those who have received even one seed. This is why the parable talks about seeds because seeds grow. Faith grows from a single seed but from that seed roots, stems, leaves and yes also fruits are produced. Can Faith be measured? I suppose we could extend the parable and say that Faith can be measured by the depth of the roots the height of stalk, the number of leaves and the number of fruits. But again, by Luke 8:18 you need not worry about the quantity of your Faith so long as you are sure that at least one seed has found fertile ground within your heart.

My own little opinions:
When a stranger looks at another stranger with an open face, that is a leap of faith. When a friend tells a friend something slightly risky to their friendship, because it needs to be said, that is a leap of faith.

When a questionable thing is said that could easily be taken the wrong way, and we choose to give so and so the benefit of the doubt, that is a leap of faith.

For me, life is a succession of leaps of faith. Interrupted by doubts, angers, confusions, etc.

Still, two humans smiling at one another with a gleams in their eyes is not a bad thing -- to understate on of those primary but not so talked of pleasures.

The point is that love is not entirely subjective, and for you to say so commits the fallacy of begging the question.

Pointing fallacy fingers is very unbecoming, especially when you have four fallacy fingers pointing back at you. From my perspective it's you begging the question, you erroneously assume that love is not subjective. And it's ugly to poison the well by suggesting that I would redefine love in such a way as to rationalize harm to anyone, I did not and you know that. "Among adults of normal intelligence and sound mind"? That is as under handed an ad hominem as I have ever had the displeasure to read. Emotions are subjective; epistemically, culturally and biographically. Love is an emotion. Therefore love is subjective. You may say that behaviors exhibited by someone in love are love itself, but that's cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

How selfish soever man may be supposed, there are evidently some principles in his nature, which interest him in the fortunes of others, and render their happiness necessary to him, though he derives nothing from it, except the pleasure of seeing it. Of this kind is pity or compassion, the emotion we feel for the misery of others, when we either see it, or are made to conceive it in a very lively manner. That we often derive sorrow from the sorrows of others, is a matter of fact too obvious to require any instances to prove it; for this sentiment, like all the other original passions of human nature, is by no means confined to the virtuous or the humane, though they perhaps may feel it with the most exquisite sensibility. The greatest ruffian, the most hardened violator of the laws of society, is not altogether without it.
- from Adam Smith's Theory of Moral Sentiments

Could not once you have doubted or questioned find you have 'more' faith afterwards?
.

When a stranger looks at another stranger with an open face, that is a leap of faith. When a friend tells a friend something slightly risky to their friendship, because it needs to be said, that is a leap of faith.

When a questionable thing is said that could easily be taken the wrong way, and we choose to give so and so the benefit of the doubt, that is a leap of faith.