What else is a universal manner other than pontificating, please describe further 'universal manner'.

---------- Post added 05-13-2010 at 04:48 PM ----------


Could part of 'universal truth' be a contradiction.
What is it about a contradiction that must be false?
Cannot ever two things exist even though they are at opposite ends of the spectrum of truth?
Perhaps universal truth is a fluid, perhaps there are times in this universe where one thing is true for one part of it and untrue for another part of it.
Perhaps when talking of universes we can think of the multi-verse concept.
Surly each of those universes could be ruled by different fundamentals that the other, so 'universally' things can still be true for some part of reality and yet in other part oppose this truth but still have its own.
It happens in people also perhaps that one man's universal truth is another man's universal delusion. If not for the simple fact some people cant be as smart or aware as others.
Different universes different set of fundamental ideals.

---------- Post added 05-13-2010 at 05:03 PM ----------


Damn straight, be thy design and thy causality thy prophecy.
Be thy drawer and thy causer thy prophet.
Many scientists are prophets, they theorise they predict they have absolutely no basis to make these claims sometimes but some will still be proven true fortuitous and fateful.
Yes I would say some scientists are definitely prophets but all prophets are definitely scientists.
It does also mean that most of the time a prophet must be the one to not only paint the fates but often-times to prove them.

What else is a universal manner other than pontificating, please describe further 'universal manner'.

Could part of 'universal truth' be a contradiction.
What is it about a contradiction that must be false?
Cannot ever two things exist even though they are at opposite ends of the spectrum of truth?
Perhaps universal truth is a fluid, perhaps there are times in this universe where one thing is true for one part of it and untrue for another part of it.
Perhaps when talking of universes we can think of the multi-verse concept.
Surly each of those universes could be ruled by different fundamentals that the other, so 'universally' things can still be true for some part of reality and yet in other part oppose this truth but still have its own.
It happens in people also perhaps that one man's universal truth is another man's universal delusion. If not for the simple fact some people cant be as smart or aware as others.
Different universes different set of fundamental ideals.

A prophet is proved/disproved by the physical presentation of evident for or against their "prediction". If a prophet says gold will rain from the sky on 5/30/2010 and on 5/30/2010 no gold rains from the sky, then the prophet is actually a false prophet.

I have read it but it was a while ago now. So I cant remember what was said about poets, please refresh me.

Why not yourself start a reading group of this in His forum.
I would be glad to read this again with someone.

---------- Post added 05-12-2010 at 12:28 AM ----------


Please why only a man?
Luke 2:36 There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage,

I went to the poets; tragic, dithyrambic, and all sorts. And there, I said to myself, you will be detected; now you will find out that you are more ignorant than they are. Accordingly, I took them some of the most elaborate passages in their own writings, and asked what was the meaning of them - thinking that they would teach me something. Will you believe me? I am almost ashamed to speak of this, but still I must say that there is hardly a person present who would not have talked better about their poetry than they did themselves. That showed me in an instant that not by wisdom do poets write poetry, but by a sort of genius and inspiration; they are like diviners or soothsayers who also say many fine things, but do not understand the meaning of them. And the poets appeared to me to be much in the same case; and I further observed that upon the strength of their poetry they believed themselves to be the wisest of men in other things in which they were not wise:detective:

This is probably the wrong place for this, but...

Revelations 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

1 The world is everything that is the case
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

:surrender:

2 What is the case- the fact- is the existence of atomic facts
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 The logical picture of the facts is the thought
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
:surrender:

4 The thought is the significant proposition
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 Propositions are truth functions of elementary propositions (elementary propositions are truth functions of themselves)
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 The general form of truth-function is [p-bar, e-bar, N(e-bar)]
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

:surrender:

Even when you realize that all truths can be seen as a delusion, you have a choice to make. You must choose which of these delusions are the most functional, the most rational. I do believe in universal rationality, and I feel this rationality is the basis of universal Truth. I can choose to deny that 2+2=4, but I'd be doing so at the cost claiming to back something that would make my existence fully irrational. So for the purpose of functionality, I adhere to its Truth.

The importance of the concept of the One, God, Tao, or Uni-verse for that matter, it that there is a most rational/connective way to exist, and the Truth that I'm speaking of is any attempt to try to convey this idea.

First, this is an interesting approach. It opens with the totality, not yet defined in its particulars. Right?

The atoms of the human word, it's intelligible structure: facts, the simplest facts.
The light revealing/creating beings is language. Do you see it this way? I note that God creates light by means of language

Do you associate darkness with negation? Or with the part of human experience that is real but not conceptualized/lingual?

The propositions are molecules of atomic facts? Holons? Russian dolls? What do you make of the waters?

As far as silence goes, I'm sure their are many possible interpretations. What is yours? I venture this one. One must be silent, not should. But this would be a tautology, right? Is he just emphasizing? Or do you interpret this as an ethical suggestion? That one should avoid certain kinds of sentences?

I feel that Wittgenstein had the personality of a prophet in many ways. What do you think?

And how would you connect this to prophecy?

More or less; it opens with reality.

"The world of the happy is quite different from that of the unhappy."
- Ludwig Wittgenstein

Yes, language; in the beginning was the word, and the word was God.

"To imagine a language is to imagine a form of life."
- Ludwig Wittgenstein

Tautology and contradiction. Isn't 5.101 a picture of heaven and hell?

"Hell isn't other people. Hell is yourself."
- Ludwig Wittgenstein

That would be the tricky part I have difficulty speaking on(though not which I must be silent about, imo). W says the significant prop is the induction, the general prop the tautology, but I have yet to see what is the elementary prop.

"The problems are solved, not by giving new information, but by arranging what we have known since long."
- Ludwig Wittgenstein (Philosophical Investigations)

It is quite flexible; I wager putting the two together tells us something, yet again.

"What can be shown, cannot be said."
- Ludwig Wittgenstein

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

"Don't for heaven's sake, be afraid of talking nonsense! But you must pay attention to your nonsense."
- Ludwig Wittgenstein

"I think one of the things you and I have to learn is that we have to live without the consolation of belonging to a Church....

Of one thing I am certain. The religion of the future will have to be extremely ascetic, and by that I don't mean just going without food and drink."
- Ludwig Wittgenstein

But there is nothing terribly profound or inspired or brilliant about saying a few universal truths.

This is why I feel so many prophets stressed the importance of the spoken word over the written word. When you rewrite the same words over an over they become static, and the essence is lost over the many translations. Spoken word, on the other hand, can remain alive in those who understand its essence, and can actually evolve.

The importance of the concept of the One, God, Tao, or Uni-verse for that matter, it that there is a most rational/connective way to exist, and the Truth that I'm speaking of is any attempt to try to convey this idea.