What is a Prophet?

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Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 06:52 pm
I think a prophet is a poet philosopher, a poetical philosophical, a poetic philosophic.
(I think I may be one.)

What is a prophet?

Ever think you might have met one?

Ever think you might be one?

How do you prove it?
 
MMP2506
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 07:04 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;162604 wrote:
I think a prophet is a poet philosopher, a poetical philosophical, a poetic philosophic.
(I think I may be one.)

What is a prophet?

Ever think you might have met one?

Ever think you might be one?

How do you prove it?


A prophet, to me, is simply a seer and speaker of truth. If you subscribe to the idea that universal truths exist, as most religions and philosophies suggest, then it is inevitable that there will be some who understand these universal truths more than others for whatever reason.

Most throughout history who have earned the title of prophet have essentially spoke the same message. Love your neighbor and love yourself equally. In this context I am using love as a deeply discussed philosophical concept and not merely an emotive response to stimuli.
 
reasoning logic
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 07:09 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;162604 wrote:
I think a prophet is a poet philosopher, a poetical philosophical, a poetic philosophic.
(I think I may be one.)

What is a prophet?

Ever think you might have met one?

Ever think you might be one?

How do you prove it?



I have read much of your work and you seem to have alot to offer. Please be careful with absolutes as we can all get them wrong. LOL
Are you familiar with Socrates? If so than you know what he says about poets.

I can only guess what he ment in his statement was that all of you poets have the same problems as the rest of us. If you do not know what I mean read apology as it is a very short text. Socrates' Defense :detective:
 
jack phil
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 07:17 pm
@sometime sun,
This is probably the wrong place for this, but...

Revelations 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

1 The world is everything that is the case
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 What is the case- the fact- is the existence of atomic facts
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 The logical picture of the facts is the thought
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 The thought is the significant proposition
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 Propositions are truth functions of elementary propositions (elementary propositions are truth functions of themselves)
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 The general form of truth-function is [p-bar, e-bar, N(e-bar)]
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

:surrender:
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 07:22 pm
@jack phil,
Jack; always a right place for everything
 
Ergo phil
 
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 07:35 pm
@sometime sun,
A prophet is a man. Yes, it is always a man who believes he's right for the masses.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 05:25 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic;162614 wrote:
I have read much of your work and you seem to have alot to offer. Please be careful with absolutes as we can all get them wrong. LOL
Are you familiar with Socrates? If so than you know what he says about poets.

I can only guess what he ment in his statement was that all of you poets have the same problems as the rest of us. If you do not know what I mean read apology as it is a very short text. Socrates' Defense :detective:

I have read it but it was a while ago now. So I cant remember what was said about poets, please refresh me.

Why not yourself start a reading group of this in His forum.
I would be glad to read this again with someone.

---------- Post added 05-12-2010 at 12:28 AM ----------

Ergo;162635 wrote:
A prophet is a man. Yes, it is always a man who believes he's right for the masses.

Please why only a man?
Luke 2:36 There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage,
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 05:35 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;162604 wrote:
I think a prophet is a poet philosopher, a poetical philosophical, a poetic philosophic.
(I think I may be one.)

What is a prophet?

Ever think you might have met one?

Ever think you might be one?

How do you prove it?



A prophet is someone who speaks for god. In other words, an extremely arrogant SOB. Most are either deluded or frauds, which is necessarily the case as they contradict each other and say that different gods exist who speak to them.

---------- Post added 05-11-2010 at 07:36 PM ----------

sometime sun;163148 wrote:
...
Ergo;162635 wrote:
A prophet is a man. Yes, it is always a man who believes he's right for the masses.

Please why only a man?
Luke 2:36 There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage,


Read your own quote; she is a prophetess, not a prophet.Wink
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 05:39 pm
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;163151 wrote:
A prophet is someone who speaks for god. In other words, an extremely arrogant SOB. Most are either deluded or frauds, which is necessarily the case as they contradict each other and say that different gods exist who speak to them.

---------- Post added 05-11-2010 at 07:36 PM ----------



Read your own quote; she is a prophetess, not a prophet.Wink

I happen to believe what you are saying, you must be able to hear the word of God, and as God speaks through me not at me I would have to conclude I am not a prophet.

---------- Post added 05-12-2010 at 12:40 AM ----------

What of Mohammed (P.B.U.H), was he really the last?
 
MMP2506
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 05:46 pm
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;163151 wrote:
A prophet is someone who speaks for god. In other words, an extremely arrogant SOB. Most are either deluded or frauds, which is necessarily the case as they contradict each other and say that different gods exist who speak to them.

---------- Post added 05-11-2010 at 07:36 PM ----------



Read your own quote; she is a prophetess, not a prophet.Wink


If a prophet is one who speaks for God, is it possible for other men to judge their words from their finite perspective?

When I think of a prophet, like I said earlier, I think of someone who is speaking universal truths. For this reason, I would consider MLK, Gandhi, and even A.N. Whitehead as prophets. Heidegger believed very much that he was embarking on a religious journey with his philosophy, and I feel Whitehead felt the same way. If they describe their experiences as a communion with the divine, I think that is how they should be understood. And that, to me, is the life of a prophet. I think the essential message in Christianity is that anyone can be a prophet, if they are willing to let go of their own personal desires in order to see what is truly important.
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 06:01 pm
@MMP2506,
MMP2506;163156 wrote:
If a prophet is one who speaks for God, is it possible for other men to judge their words from their finite perspective?



Of course. (If it were impossible to judge what they say, we could absolutely never judge any of it to be true.) And it is possible to determine that most (if not all) of them are either deluded or frauds. If you want to read more on the subject, William Kingdon Clifford discusses this in the second part of his essay, though I recommend reading it from the beginning:

The Ethics of Belief



MMP2506;163156 wrote:
When I think of a prophet, like I said earlier, I think of someone who is speaking universal truths. For this reason, I would consider MLK, Gandhi, and even A.N. Whitehead as prophets. Heidegger believed very much that he was embarking on a religious journey with his philosophy, and I feel Whitehead felt the same way. If they describe their experiences as a communion with the divine, I think that is how they should be understood. And that, to me, is the life of a prophet. I think the essential message in Christianity is that anyone can be a prophet, if they are willing to let go of their own personal desires in order to see what is truly important.



Since those people all contradicted each other, some of them were saying things that not only are not universal truths, but are in fact false. Speaking in a universal manner or pontificating does not make what one says true.
 
MMP2506
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 06:26 pm
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;163157 wrote:




Since those people all contradicted each other, some of them were saying things that not only are not universal truths, but are in fact false. Speaking in a universal manner or pontificating does not make what one says true.


A prophet does not have to only speak truth, for if he did he would cease being a prophet and become a God. Almost as if he would be the son of God.

Part of being a prophet is being Human. Humans have faults that at times cloud their judgment. Prophets, however, make themselves known in those occasions that they speak what is universally true, even if they do not always do so.

Just because you contradict yourself, or at times others, does not mean everything you have ever said has been false. A prophet does at times speak universal truths, and at times contradict himself. Sometimes it takes another prophet to decipher what was and what was not truth, but like I said earlier, I feel we all have the ability to be prophets, and that is why we study arts such as philosophy.

If someone claims he is a prophet but does not ever speak of universal truths, I would suggest that he may not be a prophet. The point of this thread is how to determine whether or not one is a prophet, and I said earlier, it will all depend on whether or not you believe universal truths exist.
 
Pyrrho
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 06:34 pm
@MMP2506,
MMP2506;163164 wrote:
A prophet does not have to only speak truth, for if he did he would cease being a prophet and become a God. Almost as if he would be the son of God.

Part of being a prophet is being Human. Humans have faults that at times cloud their judgment. Prophets, however, make themselves known in those occasions that they speak what is universally true, even if they do not always do so.

Just because you contradict yourself, or at times others, does not mean everything you have ever said has been false. A prophet does at times speak universal truths, and at times contradict himself. Sometimes it takes another prophet to decipher what was and what was not truth, but like I said earlier, I feel we all have the ability to be prophets, and that is why we study arts such as philosophy.

If someone claims he is a prophet but does not ever speak of universal truths, I would suggest that he may not be a prophet. The point of this thread is how to determine whether or not one is a prophet, and I said earlier, it will all depend on whether or not you believe universal truths exist.



If all it took to be a prophet were to speak a few universal truths occasionally, then probably pretty much everyone would be a prophet. All men are mortal, is one example of a universal truth. But there is nothing terribly profound or inspired or brilliant about saying a few universal truths.
 
salima
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 06:36 pm
@sometime sun,
only one prophetess...that speaks volumes, doesnt it? must be some difference in the physiology...it's ok, i always liked men better anyway.

i think Mohammad was the last of what he was in the context of prophets. I don't believe anyone else will come along and introduce what becomes a new world religion of importance. the time for that has passed.

I think the time has come for each human being to become a prophet and not a preacher. we all need to hear the words of God-no need to speak them.
 
MMP2506
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 06:49 pm
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;163167 wrote:
If all it took to be a prophet were to speak a few universal truths occasionally, then probably pretty much everyone would be a prophet. All men are mortal, is one example of a universal truth. But there is nothing terribly profound or inspired or brilliant about saying a few universal truths.


Well then let me explain how I was using universal truths.

Most people feel that universal truths are separate from religious convictions, but I think the essence of universality is that it transcends immediate material truths and touches upon a more spiritual notion.

When prophets are talked about, it is usually within the context of speaking some sort of divine truth, which is truth about what is unknown. We all know that all men are mortals, there is no need for a prophet to tell us that. What we do need prophets for, however, is it speak those universal truths which are not immediately presented to us in our normal everyday lives.

Were some people who claimed to be prophets frauds? Maybe. But just because there are some frauds in a group doesn't mean the whole group consists of frauds. There must be some sense where the word prophet is functional.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 08:15 pm
@MMP2506,
MMP2506;163171 wrote:

Most people feel that universal truths are separate from religious convictions, but I think the essence of universality is that it transcends immediate material truths and touches upon a more spiritual notion.


I agree. I would this age has largely turned to the scientist as a sort of prophet. Few of us really know what modern science is about, excepting what trickles down in popularizations. And I include myself in this group. And yet we have a vague faith in science. Did we see the experiments performed? Do we really understand the equations? I like math, but some of those physics equations remain beyond me. I feel that we generally have an implicit immanent sort of pseudo-theology in this age. Stuff is god.

---------- Post added 05-11-2010 at 09:19 PM ----------

MMP2506;163171 wrote:
There must be some sense where the word prophet is functional.


I agree. And if memory serves, the O.T. prophets were generally crying out for justice, for the decent treatment of orphans and widows, for instance.

Blake's works are called prophecies, but he wrote "God only acts and is in living beings, or men." I feel that some of our "prophets" have found a life more abundant and want to share this abundance with others.

Of course so many cynical con-men have come along that everyone's a suspect...

---------- Post added 05-11-2010 at 09:21 PM ----------

salima;163168 wrote:

I think the time has come for each human being to become a prophet and not a preacher. we all need to hear the words of God-no need to speak them.


I agree, and I think this was the message of at least one version of Jesus. It's a risk even to bring up these great inherited traditions, as they have indeed been soiled by ill usage, for the collection of money, as an excuse to kill. Still, the pure core of religious myth remains intact.
 
MMP2506
 
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 08:38 pm
@salima,
salima;163168 wrote:


I think the time has come for each human being to become a prophet and not a preacher. we all need to hear the words of God-no need to speak them.


I agree, but how can each human being hear the words of God if there is no one speaking them?
 
salima
 
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 08:56 am
@sometime sun,
someone is speaking-we just dont know who it is.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 09:18 am
@MMP2506,
MMP2506;163156 wrote:
If a prophet is one who speaks for God, is it possible for other men to judge their words from their finite perspective?

Are you asking if only those who are open or aware enough to believe (not discount) God are the ones who can hear the words and truths of a man made God?
or possibly just;
As it comes from a man is it not other men who must decide not only what is truth but what is divine?
Even what is Human?

What about the actions of God upon man or the action of man upon God?
Is it only the word, is it only the idea, is it in only the concept?

Is truth action of words and ideals?
Is action the only truth?

How do we know truth is unless we see it at work?

Can a man believe in God if he doe snot see God at work?
Can we trust just the word of man, when if they hear God why is God not speaking to us all?

Maybe God is speaking to all men but some just do not harken to the word.
Harken.
("Hark the herald angels sing.......")
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 09:40 am
@Pyrrho,
Pyrrho;163157 wrote:
Speaking in a universal manner or pontificating does not make what one says true.

What else is a universal manner other than pontificating, please describe further 'universal manner'.

---------- Post added 05-13-2010 at 04:48 PM ----------

MMP2506;163164 wrote:
A prophet does not have to only speak truth, for if he did he would cease being a prophet and become a God. Almost as if he would be the son of God.

Part of being a prophet is being Human. Humans have faults that at times cloud their judgment. Prophets, however, make themselves known in those occasions that they speak what is universally true, even if they do not always do so.

Just because you contradict yourself, or at times others, does not mean everything you have ever said has been false. A prophet does at times speak universal truths, and at times contradict himself. Sometimes it takes another prophet to decipher what was and what was not truth, but like I said earlier, I feel we all have the ability to be prophets, and that is why we study arts such as philosophy.

If someone claims he is a prophet but does not ever speak of universal truths, I would suggest that he may not be a prophet. The point of this thread is how to determine whether or not one is a prophet, and I said earlier, it will all depend on whether or not you believe universal truths exist.

Could part of 'universal truth' be a contradiction.
What is it about a contradiction that must be false?
Cannot ever two things exist even though they are at opposite ends of the spectrum of truth?
Perhaps universal truth is a fluid, perhaps there are times in this universe where one thing is true for one part of it and untrue for another part of it.
Perhaps when talking of universes we can think of the multi-verse concept.
Surly each of those universes could be ruled by different fundamentals that the other, so 'universally' things can still be true for some part of reality and yet in other part oppose this truth but still have its own.
It happens in people also perhaps that one man's universal truth is another man's universal delusion. If not for the simple fact some people cant be as smart or aware as others.
Different universes different set of fundamental ideals.

---------- Post added 05-13-2010 at 05:03 PM ----------

Reconstructo;163188 wrote:
I agree. I would this age has largely turned to the scientist as a sort of prophet. Few of us really know what modern science is about, excepting what trickles down in popularizations. And I include myself in this group. And yet we have a vague faith in science. Did we see the experiments performed? Do we really understand the equations? I like math, but some of those physics equations remain beyond me. I feel that we generally have an implicit immanent sort of pseudo-theology in this age. Stuff is god.

Damn straight, be thy design and thy causality thy prophecy.
Be thy drawer and thy causer thy prophet.
Many scientists are prophets, they theorise they predict they have absolutely no basis to make these claims sometimes but some will still be proven true fortuitous and fateful.
Yes I would say some scientists are definitely prophets but all prophets are definitely scientists.
It does also mean that most of the time a prophet must be the one to not only paint the fates but often-times to prove them.
 
 

 
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