Difference between a game and a war

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Deckard
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 12:42 am
Competitions can be divided into two types: games and wars. (Are there other types?) The only difference between a game and a war is that in a game everyone agrees upon the rules of the game whereas in a war there is no such agreement. Do you agree with this? If not, how would you define the difference between a game and a war?
 
wayne
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 01:19 am
@Deckard,
Deckard;150166 wrote:
Competitions can be divided into two types: games and wars. (Are there other types?) The only difference between a game and a war is that in a game everyone agrees upon the rules of the game whereas in a war there is no such agreement. Do you agree with this? If not, how would you define the difference between a game and a war?


Interesting question. I suppose the stakes involved may have some bearing in the matter, but maybe not. Some persons may view war as a game.

I'm not sure rules alone are enough, it seems there need be some form of officiating.

I think the Indians had some rules for warfare.

People sometimes die in games too.
 
jgweed
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 06:29 am
@Deckard,
What about games in which there are only one participant?

Historically, there have been many different "rules" in war. For example, at one time if a fortress surrendered before the walls had been breached, the inhabitants could not be put to the sword. Later, the time a battle would begin and end for the day would be arranged by the leaders in advance. Recently, treaties specify the treatment of prisoners and forbid certain practices in battle.

Didn't Wittgenstein remark that "game" was really a series of family resemblances---that there was no single characteristic that ran through all the different games to unite them, but rather aspects of some games that bled over to others that, in turn, would have some that were shared with entirely different games.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 07:08 am
@Deckard,
Deckard;150166 wrote:
Competitions can be divided into two types: games and wars. (Are there other types?) The only difference between a game and a war is that in a game everyone agrees upon the rules of the game whereas in a war there is no such agreement. Do you agree with this? If not, how would you define the difference between a game and a war?


Your question reminds me of the question, what is the difference between a boy and a postage stamp. Answer, one you stick with a lick, and one you lick with a stick. What is interesting about the question is that there are so many differences that you don't know where to start. What sort of difference are you looking for. Wars and games are both competitions, that is true, but there, it seems to me, the resemblance ends. Wars are serious, games are not (at least noting like wars). And, as Jeeprs points out, the game of playing by yourself shooting hoops in basket ball isn't even competitive. Jeeprs mentioned Wittgenstein who actually used the example of games to make his point that there may not be anything is common to all games (and so, maybe nothing common to all wars) which, if true, would undercut your question, since your question assumes that there is something in common to all games.
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 07:21 am
@kennethamy,
I'm tempted to say that war is not a game but it has the structure of a game. If you consider most wars have one or more unwilling participants , that excludes the idea of a game. The civilised will insist on certain rules but inevitably they are broken and it longer even resembles a game.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 07:35 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;150198 wrote:
Your question reminds me of the question, what is the difference between a boy and a postage stamp. Answer, one you stick with a lick, and one you lick with a stick. What is interesting about the question is that there are so many differences that you don't know where to start. What sort of difference are you looking for. Wars and games are both competitions, that is true, but there, it seems to me, the resemblance ends. Wars are serious, games are not (at least noting like wars). And, as Jeeprs points out, the game of playing by yourself shooting hoops in basket ball isn't even competitive. Jeeprs mentioned Wittgenstein who actually used the example of games to make his point that there may not be anything is common to all games (and so, maybe nothing common to all wars) which, if true, would undercut your question, since your question assumes that there is something in common to all games.
Boxing seems like a serious game, the old jousting tournaments could end in fatalaties.

Imo the great difference is the amount of people directly involved, and the goals, often wars are much more costly in lives.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 07:40 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;150203 wrote:
Boxing seems like a serious game, the old jousting tournaments could end in fatalaties.

Imo the great difference is the amount of people directly involved, and the goals, often wars are much more costly in lives.


Are boxing or jousting games? Why? People play basketball and chess, but nobody plays boxing (or jousting). And to "play war" is to pretend you are at war, or to play war games.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 08:35 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;150204 wrote:
Are boxing or jousting games? Why? People play basketball and chess, but nobody plays boxing (or jousting). And to "play war" is to pretend you are at war, or to play war games.
You apply wrong terms to simple things.

The oplympic games involves boxing, just because it's a game doesn't nessesarily needs applying the term "play" to it.

A game often involves multiple people, objectives, rules, tactics and strategies.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 09:18 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;150213 wrote:


The oplympic games involves boxing, just because it's a game doesn't nessesarily needs applying the term "play" to it.

.


Why not? ...................
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 09:24 am
@Deckard,
Wars are games whose consequences outweigh their entertainment
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 09:44 am
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;150234 wrote:
Wars are games whose consequences outweigh their entertainment


But that assumes the wars are games. And that is a part of the issue. Are wars games? The argument:

1. All games are competitive.
2. All wars are competitive.

Therefore, 3, all wars are games

Is a fallacious argument. It commits the fallacy of the undistributed middle term.
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 09:52 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;150246 wrote:
But that assumes the wars are games. And that is a part of the issue. Are wars games? The argument:

1. All games are competitive.
2. All wars are competitive.

Therefore, 3, all wars are games

Is a fallacious argument. It commits the fallacy of the undistributed middle term.


If you come to a consensus on what you wish to define a game as, then you will see that all aspects of life is a game. Wars are merely a type of game, just as everything else.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 10:04 am
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;150250 wrote:
If you come to a consensus on what you wish to define a game as, then you will see that all aspects of life is a game. Wars are merely a type of game, just as everything else.


You are using the term "game" in a way I don't understand, and in a way it is not ordinarily used. If everything is a "game" then nothing is a "game" for, in that case, the term "game" is no longer useful for distinguishing between games and non-games. It loses its meaning.
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 10:06 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;150253 wrote:
You are using the term "game" in a way I don't understand, and in a way it is not ordinarily used. If everything is a "game" then nothing is a "game" for, in that case, the term "game" is no longer useful for distinguishing between games and non-games. It loses its meaning.



Like I said, first you have to come to a consensus as to what your definition of game is. once you do, i will demonstrate what i mean. Although it will become self evident.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 10:06 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;150232 wrote:
Why not? ...................
I just find it hard to see the term "play" fitting to all games, sure there can be play, but don't see it as a nessesary premesis.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 12:35 pm
@Deckard,
Deckard;150166 wrote:
Competitions can be divided into two types: games and wars. (Are there other types?) The only difference between a game and a war is that in a game everyone agrees upon the rules of the game whereas in a war there is no such agreement. Do you agree with this? If not, how would you define the difference between a game and a war?


I agree. Have you ever looked at the book Blood Meridian? Brutal but brilliant book. War presented as the ultimate game that eats its players.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 12:47 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;150256 wrote:
I just find it hard to see the term "play" fitting to all games,


Maybe that is because they are not games. If you say, "Sewing is a game", and I say, "But you cannot play sewing", that may be because you are wrong to think that sewing is a game, and not because "play" does not fit all games.
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 01:00 pm
@kennethamy,
A game always implies willing contestants, war is hardly ever a willing game, for most.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 01:15 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;150298 wrote:
Maybe that is because they are not games. If you say, "Sewing is a game", and I say, "But you cannot play sewing", that may be because you are wrong to think that sewing is a game, and not because "play" does not fit all games.
Then how can you account for sports being games, when they'r in the Olympic Games ..see G-A-M-E-S, please explain that. It's like you ignore a blatant fact and go on with you usual illusive metaphors.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 10 Apr, 2010 01:25 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;150314 wrote:
Then how can you account for sports being games, when they'r in the Olympic Games ..see G-A-M-E-S, please explain that. It's like you ignore a blatant fact and go on with you usual illusive metaphors.



The ancient Greeks used to call their Olympics, "The Games". I don't know why? Maybe it is bad translation.

What facts am I ignoring? Isn't it a fact that we don't say "I am playing sewing" or "playing eating" because sewing and eating are not games? That may be a fact that you are ignoring.
 
 

 
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