Would you pay a school tax ?

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wayne
 
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2010 11:22 pm
Our present school system seems beset by many woes, chief of which appears to be lack of funding. We have fallen behind many other countries in educating our children as well as we might.

Would you pay a voluntary school tax, if it went directly to the schools, with the goal of improving curriculum and individual attention to the student?

If so ,what amount of money are we looking at? What would you be willing to sacrifice?
 
Jebediah
 
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2010 11:40 pm
@wayne,
It's not really clear that money is the issue.

I don't really like to act like I know the ins and outs of major policy like this, but it seems to me that it's mainly a cultural issue, like we've fallen behind because students here are less interested in learning. The drive for standardized testing doesn't seem very intuitive to me. It's hard to judge a teachers quality very well by the test scores. Students aren't necessarily distributed randomly, and teachers often proctor the exams themselves.
 
wayne
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 12:11 am
@Jebediah,
Jebediah;147416 wrote:
It's not really clear that money is the issue.

I don't really like to act like I know the ins and outs of major policy like this, but it seems to me that it's mainly a cultural issue, like we've fallen behind because students here are less interested in learning. The drive for standardized testing doesn't seem very intuitive to me. It's hard to judge a teachers quality very well by the test scores. Students aren't necessarily distributed randomly, and teachers often proctor the exams themselves.


Could more funding, properly distributed, do anything to help alleviate some of these issues?
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 01:50 am
@wayne,
Just some schools should benefit. Public, humanistic and with highest standards in social teachings (ethiquette). Funds for scolarships by government. Let the community decide who to go to University.

Maybe Vatican can chip in to make up for Youth who trusted priests. In The Netherlands we would strip the basterds. Not bevcause they gay, but because they raped minors and abused position. They insulted many, including God as they pray to.

Maybe Chief-in-Commant be more civil ?

I Starfighter/sf XX would put many through pre-school

May a Gymnasium+Athenaeum be an European School ?
Just the roots....:brickwall:
 
wayne
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 11:11 am
@wayne,
Preschool is, in my experience, a very good way to interest children in learning. A child, taught to think at an early age ,seems to develop a lifelong capacity for learning.
In some cases this is the benefit of working mothers.
 
Jebediah
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 01:26 pm
@wayne,
wayne;147546 wrote:
Preschool is, in my experience, a very good way to interest children in learning. A child, taught to think at an early age ,seems to develop a lifelong capacity for learning.


I don't know if preschool really has that effect, but it makes sense. It at least gives the basics of math and reading from what I remember, and lets children start off feeling more sure of themselves. And the desire to learn is what is of primary importance. Parents however, are many times more likely to blame the schools instead of their own children. You can have bad teachers, but if they kids aren't doing their homework, extra funding for the schools is not going to make them do their homework. Their parents need to do that.

I guess what bugs me about it is that the various types of legislation proposed to fix the problem* gloss over the real issue and implement a change that that seems to be for the worse, meanwhile combining emotional sayings like "provide for our children's future" with get tough statements about "ensuring higher standards for teachers".

*based just on what I've heard about them admittedly
 
jgweed
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 01:51 pm
@wayne,
Wouldn't it be important to first attempt to distinguish and identify the causes of the failure of our educational institutions and perhaps then direct additional funds where they might make a difference, and would it also not be useful to determine if the same problems and the same solution (for example, lack of funding) would be more or less effective at different levels of education?
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 02:20 pm
@jgweed,
Those who say money is not the issue should check up on the private schools term fees. Generally speaking the higher the fees, the better the results.
 
mister kitten
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 02:50 pm
@wayne,
What if the money was going to the wrong places?
If a school received some tax money and used it for sports instead of scholarly related things, then what would happen?
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 02:58 pm
@mister kitten,
mister kitten;147610 wrote:
What if the money was going to the wrong places?
If a school received some tax money and used it for sports instead of scholarly related things, then what would happen?
So what , is that a fault of the extra money or the school? If you think extra money does no good, would less money help?:perplexed: I find this debate a bit weird ,bizarre..
 
mister kitten
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 03:04 pm
@wayne,
I'm not arguing against more money. I'm asking about the consequence of the possibility of faulty use of more money.

xris;147611 wrote:
So what , is that a fault of the extra money or the school?

The fault of the latter.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 04:06 pm
@mister kitten,
Surely. I Think education is the future; curriculum should change. More morals, less religion. Difficult.

Less exclusive religious claims.

Jezus is dead.
:bigsmile:
 
wayne
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 09:28 pm
@jgweed,
jgweed;147597 wrote:
Wouldn't it be important to first attempt to distinguish and identify the causes of the failure of our educational institutions and perhaps then direct additional funds where they might make a difference, and would it also not be useful to determine if the same problems and the same solution (for example, lack of funding) would be more or less effective at different levels of education?


I agree that we must examine the root causes first. One question might be, do we believe that our administrators can repair the system, given the funding?

If not, shouldn't funding be used to aquire first rate administrators that can do the job?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 10:09 pm
@xris,
xris;147603 wrote:
Those who say money is not the issue should check up on the private schools term fees. Generally speaking the higher the fees, the better the results.


But it doesn't follow that it is because the fees are higher that the results are better, does it?
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2010 03:29 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;147691 wrote:
But it doesn't follow that it is because the fees are higher that the results are better, does it?
But to say extra money does not help is illogical. The fees follow the results not results follow the fees.Excellence increases the fees.

You will always have certain public schools that maintain good results and schools that don't but by giving them more money will always improve them to a degree. The extreme would be no money or loads of money , with that view nothing would change.
 
Lost1 phil
 
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2010 09:00 am
@wayne,
Can't seem to get my mind past the idea of a voluntary tax? Okay, I'll be honest, I laughted at the idea and now I'm still trying to figure out how that would work -- sort of like you've just purchased a new car and as you are paying for it you say..."Oh, and by the way, could you ad another 1% to that please and I want it to go towards education? ...then I get even more boggled when I think about how exactly would one go about insuring that that which you have collected actually goes to where you hope it to go....

Okay, if it is a tax -- properly placed on the books by acceptable means, voted into being...I do not have a choice - yes I would pay it because those I purchase things from would likely not allow me to not pay it and take my purchase out of the place of business.

Would I vote for an increase in my taxes believing it would go towards education? Certainly - education is our only hope for a better future. Of course it would not be an easy decision when I've voted in the the state lottery, past increases for education etc. etc. and I'm still not liking the results...

Okay...this idea of voluntarily paying taxes...what a little bit of heaven that would be until that first pothole damaged my car beyond the tax value if paid.

Lost1
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2010 11:10 am
@Lost1 phil,
Lost1;147853 wrote:
Can't seem to get my mind past the idea of a voluntary tax? Okay, I'll be honest, I laughted at the idea and now I'm still trying to figure out how that would work -- sort of like you've just purchased a new car and as you are paying for it you say..."Oh, and by the way, could you ad another 1% to that please and I want it to go towards education? ...then I get even more boggled when I think about how exactly would one go about insuring that that which you have collected actually goes to where you hope it to go....

Okay, if it is a tax -- properly placed on the books by acceptable means, voted into being...I do not have a choice - yes I would pay it because those I purchase things from would likely not allow me to not pay it and take my purchase out of the place of business.

Would I vote for an increase in my taxes believing it would go towards education? Certainly - education is our only hope for a better future. Of course it would not be an easy decision when I've voted in the the state lottery, past increases for education etc. etc. and I'm still not liking the results...

Okay...this idea of voluntarily paying taxes...what a little bit of heaven that would be until that first pothole damaged my car beyond the tax value if paid.

Lost1


May be a fee for Wicki ? Or google ? Support of reprints of real books. Book on-line is not book naxt to your bed. Magic of Imagination.

Scholing is most important. Maybe state-funded pre-college and financial support for numbre of students. Any straigt A & A-, C+ level extra stimulance. It not all-ways best highschool students who are the geniuses. Hard workers and motivated young have to have change.

Good to see you on Forum again.

Pepijn Sweep
Amsterdam
:flowers:
 
Leonard
 
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2010 12:02 pm
@wayne,
Why go to a public school with compulsory attendance, sub-par honors courses and disinterested students for money when one can go to a private school where students take education seriously? If both of them cost money, those interested in academics would be drawn towards private schools and public schools would be left with everyone else.
 
wayne
 
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2010 08:08 pm
@Lost1 phil,
Lost1;147853 wrote:
Can't seem to get my mind past the idea of a voluntary tax? Okay, I'll be honest, I laughted at the idea and now I'm still trying to figure out how that would work -- sort of like you've just purchased a new car and as you are paying for it you say..."Oh, and by the way, could you ad another 1% to that please and I want it to go towards education? ...then I get even more boggled when I think about how exactly would one go about insuring that that which you have collected actually goes to where you hope it to go....

Okay, if it is a tax -- properly placed on the books by acceptable means, voted into being...I do not have a choice - yes I would pay it because those I purchase things from would likely not allow me to not pay it and take my purchase out of the place of business.

Would I vote for an increase in my taxes believing it would go towards education? Certainly - education is our only hope for a better future. Of course it would not be an easy decision when I've voted in the the state lottery, past increases for education etc. etc. and I'm still not liking the results...

Okay...this idea of voluntarily paying taxes...what a little bit of heaven that would be until that first pothole damaged my car beyond the tax value if paid.

Lost1


I'm thinking it might be something like a box you check on your witholding, and fill in an amount you are willing to commit to for the year.
After a couple of weeks you wouldn't even notice the extra 5 dollars or whatever amount.

I think it's fairly common to find boxes on state tax returns that contribute a dollar toward wildlife and parks.

Tax , is probably a poor choice of words.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2010 09:50 pm
@xris,
xris;147772 wrote:
But to say extra money does not help is illogical. The fees follow the results not results follow the fees.Excellence increases the fees.

You will always have certain public schools that maintain good results and schools that don't but by giving them more money will always improve them to a degree. The extreme would be no money or loads of money , with that view nothing would change.


Extra money may be a necessary condition, but it is not a sufficient condition for improvement. There are many case when lots of money has been poured in with no discernible result. What is illogical is to think that extra money is enough to make improvement.
 
 

 
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