Chaos isn't

@sometime sun,

:bigsmile: I was arrested . Claimed Freedom of Speech.

Tulips for Arjuna have to wait
I'll be back !:whoa-dude:

@sometime sun,

sometime sun;138462 wrote:

Had this question elsewhere tonight i think it 'deserves' some time;

Is chaos anything but that which it isn't?

Nope.

You have to let your question sink in before it can be truly appreciated.

Unless you are talking about the religious believe that is what was prior to some god making order out of it all...but even then it's still about that which isn't, right?

Lost1

@Lost1 phil,

sometime sun;138462 wrote:

Had this question elsewhere tonight i think it 'deserves' some time;

Is chaos anything but that which it isn't?

Other than that which it isn't? Same is true of order?

Pepijn Sweep;138469 wrote:

:bigsmile: I was arrested . Claimed Freedom of Speech.

Tulips for Arjuna have to wait
I'll be back !:whoa-dude:

Pep! You tell 'em!!!

Lost1;138580 wrote:

Nope.

You have to let your question sink in before it can be truly appreciated.

Unless you are talking about the religious believe that is what was prior to some god making order out of it all...but even then it's still about that which isn't, right?

Lost1

Makes sense.

@Arjuna,

sometime sun;138462 wrote:

Is chaos anything but that which it isn't?

Wouldn't chaos essentially be the opposition of order (by definition)? As a brief example, some theories of Greek cosmogony attempted to explain the origin, existence, etc. of the universe by delineating between a form of regular arrangement and unformed primordial chaos. So in that sense, shouldn't chaos be anything without order to it? Doesn't this seem obvious?

But even in chaos theory (somewhat removed from the standard definition), chaos is inherent in even the most ordered systems because like much everything else in the universe, there is a factor of random behavior (probability) which works within a deterministic system. The weather (or even the prediction of weather) is a good example of this. The weather does not lack any particular governing laws, however, the weather itself is sensitive to even the smallest conditions.

Interestingly enough, isn't this a fundamental issue behind the butterfly affect? If a butterfly in Argentina flaps its wings, would that not in turn (under chaos theory) result in a hurricane far away? Which I suppose is why in many sciences a basic theory is always preceded by ceteris parabus to rule out the probabilities of unknown variables.

@VideCorSpoon,

What !?! was the name of the Rose ?

@Arjuna,

It depends on whether you mean absoulte chaos or figurative chaos. That which is disorganized is figuratively chaotic. In our minds things have a finished form. The finished forms are mental aesthetic necessities there to help us form our reality. Cows look like cows, they have cow-like properties a non-fully formed cow with cow-like properties would seem chaotic/surreal a field full of half cows is like a painting of melted clocks in the desert. Figurativly chaotic is hazzardous to our sense of reality/normality.

Some people have the aesthetic ideal state of a bedroom it, like the finished form of the cow is mentally soothing. When the bedroom is figurativly chaotic it is damaging to their mental wellbeing, even if in just a minor way (feeling of uneasyness, or disatisfaction).

The absolutely chaotic can be only nothingness because molecularly any pretty much any state of disorganization can form something if organized in the proper way. Although strictly speaking if everything was disorganized enough, we would not be around to comprehend the chaos or lack thereof.

@Pepijn Sweep,

Pepijn Sweep;138634 wrote:

What !?! was the name of the Rose ?

Rosebud. (Hint: It was his sleigh from when he was a kid. There, just saved you two hours of your time from watching Citizen Kane)

@VideCorSpoon,

VideCorSpoon;138636 wrote:

Rosebud. (Hint: It was his sleigh from when he was a kid. There, just saved you two hours of your time from watching Citizen Kane)

But you can't tell if it smelled as sweet from watching the movie, unless you see it in smello-vision.

@Lost1 phil,

Lost1;138580 wrote:

Nope.

You have to let your question sink in before it can be truly appreciated.

Unless you are talking about the religious believe that is what was prior to some god making order out of it all...but even then it's still about that which isn't, right?

Lost1

Yes i think so also.

Religions chaos, sciences chaos, general chaos.
chaos; dict; complete confusion; utter disorder.
2 physics a state of disorder and irregularity that is an intermediate stage between highly ordered motion and entirely random motion. From Greek khaos.

Is chaos the opposite of order?
Was order once chaos?

Think about that word 'order' even in science we use the term 'order', what does 'order' mean? Order could easily mean controled or contolable.
So whos pulling the strings?
Did we have to tie or untie to be ordered?

That which isn't, yes and no,
no because that which isn't is nothingness it isn't. It does not. It can not. It is not.
yes because chaos is that which isn't everything anyhting but not nothing because chaos is still something is still chaos.
Chaos is the start of something, the start of everything possibly?
So chaos is the closest 'thing' there is to nothing.
yes in what you say because nothing can exist in chaos,
chaos can not exist but still is something,
chaos does not hold nor is held by existance and yet is not a nothing?

Do you see? because my glasses just went blurry and i need to clean my lenses.

How can something not be a nothing when it cannot exist?
Is there such that can survive outside of existance?

@sometime sun,

sometime sun;138462 wrote:

Had this question elsewhere tonight i think it 'deserves' some time;

Is chaos anything but that which it isn't?

- chaotic mind
- chaos in life
- chaos in job
- chaos in town, LA riot
- chaos in marrige
- earthquake caused chaos

..order in chaos!

@HexHammer,

HexHammer;138708 wrote:

- chaotic mind
- chaos in life
- chaos in job
- chaos in town, LA riot
- chaos in marrige
- earthquake caused chaos

..order in chaos!

So are you saying chaos does or does not exist?
Or are you saying it can only exist if it has order to boss or is bossed by order?

@sometime sun,

sometime sun;138748 wrote:

So are you saying chaos does or does not exist?
Or are you saying it can only exist if it has order to boss or is bossed by order?

Chaos can emerge, chaos can occur, you might put order in chaos, chaos comes and vanishes.

How can it even be a question if it exist or not?

@HexHammer,

:shocked:

HexHammer;138846 wrote:

Chaos can emerge, chaos can occur, you might put order in chaos, chaos comes and vanishes.

How can it even be a question if it exist or not?

@sometime sun,

For me, I see the complete universe as nothing other than chaos. I think anyone who sees order to it, is only looking at a piece of the universe and not the entire thing. I don't even see math as an ordered system. Because it is only the context of the math itself where you get any sort of order out of it, therefore math itself is chaos. Everything is in a state of chaos and there isn't any order anywhere if you ask me.

You can say the human body is an example of an ordered system. No, anyone who knows anything remotely about the human body in terms of biology and chemistry will tell you that it is a chaotic system. There is no fundamental situation that works in every system and that is why it is a chaotic. People try all the time to deduce the human body into a system which will be universal for all human bodies but it's simply not the case. If you see order in it, you are only looking at one small piece of the whole again.

It's like they call the cycle the order but the cycle itself is unpredictable so how can you call it order? You can't. Here is an example of what I mean.

You can say the rain cycle is an example of order. But I say no it is not. The theory of the rain cycle might be an example of order but the reality of the rain cycle is not ordered at all. Other wise we would be able to tell when and where the rain would occur and we can't. We have people who's job it is to tell us these things and they are only right about ten percent of the time, which is lower than guessing.

I live in Washington state where it rains a lot and it is pretty easy to say if it is going to rain because more than likely it will. However there are so many times and I hear it often, that people rarely actually take the weather report truthfully. Because there have been days where the weather person proclaims a high chance of rain and nothing happened. It hasn't just happened once or twice or a few times, but it happens A LOT. This proves that the system, as well as it is understood is not predictable and therefore not an ordered system.

@sometime sun,

I see the complete universe as nothing other than chaos Think most siencetists interested in the universe, see it as orderly and predictable.

there are so many times and I hear it often, that people rarely actually take the weather report truthfully. Because there have been days where the weather person proclaims a high chance of rain and nothing happened. It hasn't just happened once or twice or a few times, but it happens A LOT. This proves that the system, as well as it is understood is not predictable and therefore not an ordered system. What it proves, is that you don't comprehend the meaning of chance.

@HexHammer,

HexHammer;138893 wrote:

I see the complete universe as nothing other than chaos Think most siencetists interested in the universe, see it as orderly and predictable.

there are so many times and I hear it often, that people rarely actually take the weather report truthfully. Because there have been days where the weather person proclaims a high chance of rain and nothing happened. It hasn't just happened once or twice or a few times, but it happens A LOT. This proves that the system, as well as it is understood is not predictable and therefore not an ordered system. What it proves, is that you don't comprehend the meaning of chance.

Well if I can't comprehend the meaning of chance then you lack the ability to read.

If someone is only accurate ten percent of the time on statements of sixty percent chance it means that out of all those possible outcomes they should be sixty percent right. They aren't, hence the ten percent accuracy. I guess you are not good at math either.

@Krumple,

Krumple;138897 wrote:

Well if I can't comprehend the meaning of chance then you lack the ability to read.

If someone is only accurate ten percent of the time on statements of sixty percent chance it means that out of all those possible outcomes they should be sixty percent right. They aren't, hence the ten percent accuracy. I guess you are not good at math either.

I'm afraid you miss the greater picture.
Just because our technology for weather casting is low tech, doesn't mean it's unpredictable. Maybe 100 years from now, we can more accurately predict the weather.

@HexHammer,

HexHammer;138900 wrote:

I'm afraid you miss the greater picture.
Just because our technology for weather casting is low tech, doesn't mean it's unpredictable. Maybe 100 years from now, we can more accurately predict the weather.

Perhaps but I have seen interviews with the top meteorologists and they say there are just too many factors to determining the weather that by the time you collected all the data and put it into a computer to calculate the weather it would have changed and given possibly a different result.

This is why they use percentages to begin with since they can never be certain of any particular out come.

When it comes down to quantum physics this is what the reality is pointing to. That the best out come we can ever be certain of is a guess. Ironic and borderline absurd yet it is the reality as we currently understand it.

@sometime sun,

What seams like chaos to some can be perfectly understood to someone who knows the cause and effects of of respective "chaotic" event. whether and the butterfly effect are in no way chaotic. the butterfly effect is saying that a small cause can go through a cycle of cause and effect that eventually leads to a hurricane or anything else but it is all set in motion and following strict physical laws. things can only appear to be chaotic unless you believe that some effects occur without a cause. If you believe as i do that everything has a cause and effect then you don't have room for chaos.

@ everything is chaos.
there need not even be the word chaos if anyone understood anything. chaos is only a persons inability to understand a given set of events. to believe in chaos is to believe that something could occur at random but you would have to change random to a word that we don't have to describe something that invents itself and happens as even random imply s that options are waiting to occur.

@chaotic whether.
we can not predict whether with 100% accuracy because we do not have a perfect understanding of the laws that govern it or the ability to see what the atoms are doing. if we did everything down to every word and thought that has is or will occur would be predictable. thus we have no free will but to us it appears we do but you can trace every decisions you make back to birth if you are asked the right questions.

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