Would you rather never have been born?

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manored
 
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 04:32 pm
@gojo1978,
gojo1978;100730 wrote:
So you say... where are you getting that from though?

There is every reason to believe that. Every reason. There is NO reason to believe anything contrary to that.
Well, then, we totally disagree in this matter. No use arguing endlessly.
 
gojo1978
 
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 05:15 pm
@manored,
manored;100914 wrote:
Well, then, we totally disagree in this matter. No use arguing endlessly.


OK, but can you please at least state your reasons for believing that "there is no reason to believe that by not having children we are sparing people from existence"?

I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that by not having children, we prevent people from existing... It seems to me like a mathematical certainty.

What are your reasons for disagreeing with that?
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 07:13 pm
@gojo1978,
gojo1978 wrote:
Oblivion. The negation of everything you know.


What does any of this mean? You've experienced the negation of everything you know?
 
gojo1978
 
Reply Sat 31 Oct, 2009 07:55 pm
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;100930 wrote:
What does any of this mean? You've experienced the negation of everything you know?


No, no... of course I concede I have not experienced that first-hand.

It is simply a thought experiment. Imagine the negation of everything you know; and imagine oneself in that position, i.e. never having existed.

I don't understand, though, why some people would rather pick silly holes in the question than actually engage with it. It seems to indicate a tremendous lack of imagination. I'm guessing it has to do with the nature of the question; it appears to be a somewhat touchy subject for a lot of people.
 
manored
 
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2009 10:07 am
@gojo1978,
gojo1978;100919 wrote:
OK, but can you please at least state your reasons for believing that "there is no reason to believe that by not having children we are sparing people from existence"?

I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that by not having children, we prevent people from existing... It seems to me like a mathematical certainty.

What are your reasons for disagreeing with that?

Simply, we dont know what is beyond our perception. As we dont know, there is no evidence of, that, for example, not having children will mean less minds in the universe, thus there is no reason to believe so.

Its like god. Some people believe god doesnt exists, but, in reality, there is no evidence of that it doesnt exists, and thus no reason to believe that it doesnt exists.
 
gojo1978
 
Reply Sun 1 Nov, 2009 11:53 am
@manored,
manored;101007 wrote:
Simply, we dont know what is beyond our perception. As we dont know, there is no evidence of, that, for example, not having children will mean less minds in the universe, thus there is no reason to believe so.

Its like god. Some people believe god doesnt exists, but, in reality, there is no evidence of that it doesnt exists, and thus no reason to believe that it doesnt exists.


These are both fallacious arguments.

Firstly, you are the one who made the distinction between the existence of persons and minds; in that sense, I am a materialist.

Even so, there IS a reason to believe that not having children will mean less minds in the universe; when was the last time you witnessed any evidence for the existence of an immaterial mind?

Or, if you want to look at that from another angle, what you're saying is that a mere lack of positive proof against something gives a positive reason to believe the opposite. You have no proof that I am not a cat; do you believe me to be one on that same basis?

You're right about one thing though, it IS like god, i.e. there is a resounding lack of convincing arguments to support it.
 
manored
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 12:39 pm
@gojo1978,
gojo1978;101037 wrote:

Even so, there IS a reason to believe that not having children will mean less minds in the universe; when was the last time you witnessed any evidence for the existence of an immaterial mind?
Never. But there is no reason to believe they are impossible.

gojo1978;101037 wrote:

Or, if you want to look at that from another angle, what you're saying is that a mere lack of positive proof against something gives a positive reason to believe the opposite. You have no proof that I am not a cat; do you believe me to be one on that same basis?
Thats not what I am saying, if it was, I would be saying we MUST have children because they WILL suffer if they arent born.
 
Bhaktajan
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 01:45 pm
@gojo1978,
1] Moot means, "debatable"

2] I have always wondered what other philosophers would say about the following idea:

"It is a defacto truth that all the world's citizens who lived and died, during the time span of, let us say, for illustration sake, 1,000 BCE until 1800 CE---all those people met with there own destiny or IOW, they all lived out there destiny" Is this a correct statement?
 
manored
 
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 12:46 pm
@Bhaktajan,
Bhaktajan;101317 wrote:

2] I have always wondered what other philosophers would say about the following idea:

"It is a defacto truth that all the world's citizens who lived and died, during the time span of, let us say, for illustration sake, 1,000 BCE until 1800 CE---all those people met with there own destiny or IOW, they all lived out there destiny" Is this a correct statement?
Yes. It cant be wrong because the concept of destiny is such that anything you do that seems to be "against your destiny" is actually just a part of it. This also means that thinking you have a destiny in your life that you must or will be allowed to follow is stupid, since anything you do IS your destiny.
 
manfred
 
Reply Thu 28 Jan, 2010 11:54 am
@manored,
Well i see this thread has stayed in the exact same spot..somewhere between the internal semantics of a poorly worded Question: "Would you rather never have been born" and the regurgitated words of a poorly thought out response....such as RUBBISH!
Hi gojo.
 
 

 
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