Is Obama the Antichrist?

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Arjuna
 
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 08:42 pm
Some time ago somebody told me that a very accomplished, educated man I know believes Obama is the Antichrist. I was surprised at such strong feelings. It hasn't been that long since I learned that it was best to sit in silence when my friends compared Bush to Hitler... to contradict them only inflamed their lack of logic.

But just the other day I overheard a conversation between coworkers. They were formulating their own views about whether Obama is the Antichrist, and if he was sworn into office using the Koran instead of a Bible. Their conclusion seemed to be that the coming of the Antichrist is not something to become agitated about because it's all part of a divine plan.

So they were serious... as in The Antichrist. Uh... is there some test I can do to determine if I've slipped into the wrong universe accidently? Exactly how far out of the loop am I? Does anybody know what's going on?
 
Krumple
 
Reply Fri 2 Oct, 2009 10:24 pm
@Arjuna,
I saw a video where some guy used some words from Koran to claim Obama as the Antichrist too. I think it would give obama WAY TOO MUCH credit if he were. He is just a politician, a person, who wants to tell others how to live. As far as I am concerned he is just like Bush in almost every way. The only real difference I can see between Bush and Obama is he can actually read. Bush always tried to do his speeches off the cuff but you could get better sense from a drunken baby.

So I don't believe he is anything special. He isn't going to fix anything, and we will continue to be in this huge mess for a long time after he is out of office. That is not even a prediction it is a fact.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 3 Oct, 2009 01:42 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;94858 wrote:
I saw a video where some guy used some words from Koran to claim Obama as the Antichrist too. I think it would give obama WAY TOO MUCH credit if he were. He is just a politician, a person, who wants to tell others how to live. As far as I am concerned he is just like Bush in almost every way. The only real difference I can see between Bush and Obama is he can actually read. Bush always tried to do his speeches off the cuff but you could get better sense from a drunken baby.

So I don't believe he is anything special. He isn't going to fix anything, and we will continue to be in this huge mess for a long time after he is out of office. That is not even a prediction it is a fact.


I know it is fashionable to denigrate President Bush, and say all kinds of exaggerated things about him which are obviously not true. (Someone who got a Harvard MA can't read). People who don't like the policies of a politician are constantly going off the deep end, and saying things like Obama is the Anti-Christ (whatever that means). Of course, that kind of thing undermines their credibility, since it is hard to take them seriously after that. Obviously, Bush and Obama had very different policies. But, but, from a distance, they seem alike, just as from a distance, and without any knowledge, some people would not differentiate between the Moon and the Sun. (After all, they are both up there, and they both shine).

There is only so much a president can do. That is how the Constitution fashions it. For example, Obama proposes, but the Congress (and the Courts) disposes. I am pretty happy about that since I don't want a president to have so much power that he can reverse whatever policies and laws he wants to reverse. And you should be happy about that too. (Depending on what kind of country you want to live in, of course). Obama will eventually get some things changed. Whether that means they will be "fixed" is, of course, a very different question. Change is not always fixing. Sometimes it is breaking.

And, finally, predictions can also be facts. In fact, all true predictions are (or become) facts.
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Sun 4 Oct, 2009 12:43 pm
@Arjuna,
Arjuna wrote:
But just the other day I overheard a conversation between coworkers. They were formulating their own views about whether Obama is the Antichrist,


These kinds of people are actually allowed into the workforce?! :shocked:
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 4 Oct, 2009 03:08 pm
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;95058 wrote:
These kinds of people are actually allowed into the workforce?! :shocked:


You would be astonished at what is out there. After all, the average (the average!) I.Q. is between 90 and 110. And although stupidity and ignorance are different, they do, often, go together.
 
William
 
Reply Sun 4 Oct, 2009 04:10 pm
@Arjuna,
Arjuna;94850 wrote:
Some time ago somebody told me that a very accomplished, educated man I know believes Obama is the Antichrist. I was surprised at such strong feelings.


Hello Arjuna. Are you "un-educated"? Please, if you don't mind, what makes you think he was educated? What was it about him that prompted you to make that statement. If he were truly educated, he would not make such a statement unless he knows both Obama and the Anti-Christ pretty well that would allow him to make such a distinction, don't you think? Who was he trying to convince; you or himself? To me, he was showing his own ignorance for a truly honest and educated man would not make such a statement unless in his education, that is what "they" taught him, right? .Perhaps he thought you considered him educated, you might agree with what he had to say. You know, "there are wise people who are not so smart; and they are smart people who are not so wise".

Arjuna;94850 wrote:
It hasn't been that long since I learned that it was best to sit in silence when my friends compared Bush to Hitler... to contradict them only inflamed their lack of logic.


It sounds like you are talking about the same person. If it is, perhaps, if it disturbs you so much, you might consider not hanging around to listen to anything they have to say.

Arjuna;94850 wrote:
But just the other day I overheard a conversation between coworkers. They were formulating their own views about whether Obama is the Antichrist, and if he was sworn into office using the Koran instead of a Bible. Their conclusion seemed to be that the coming of the Antichrist is not something to become agitated about because it's all part of a divine plan.


Now, just assuming, these guys, and I am assuming they were men, were right and there is a battle ensuing; are you afraid of it? Considering what you know about either christ or the antichrist as to what you have been taught, are you alarmed by these opinions or not? If so, then why?

Arjuna;94850 wrote:
So they were serious... as in The Antichrist. Uh... is there some test I can do to determine if I've slipped into the wrong universe accidently? Exactly how far out of the loop am I? Does anybody know what's going on?


I assume you are in the right universe, as I live here too, though I have not heard such "stuff". As far as for as a loop, I'd find another orbit to circle around in. Just a suggestion. What is happening here Arjuna, is misery is trying to find a sharing company of people in which they don't have to worry so much..If this is evident in all the company you keep, I suggest you move or find another job.....................or by earplugs. :a-ok:

William
 
Fernando phil
 
Reply Sun 4 Oct, 2009 05:23 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;94865 wrote:
I know it is fashionable to denigrate President Bush, and say all kinds of exaggerated things about him which are obviously not true. (Someone who got a Harvard MA can't read). People who don't like the policies of a politician are constantly going off the deep end, and saying things like Obama is the Anti-Christ (whatever that means). Of course, that kind of thing undermines their credibility, since it is hard to take them seriously after that. Obviously, Bush and Obama had very different policies. But, but, from a distance, they seem alike, just as from a distance, and without any knowledge, some people would not differentiate between the Moon and the Sun. (After all, they are both up there, and they both shine).

There is only so much a president can do. That is how the Constitution fashions it. For example, Obama proposes, but the Congress (and the Courts) disposes. I am pretty happy about that since I don't want a president to have so much power that he can reverse whatever policies and laws he wants to reverse. And you should be happy about that too. (Depending on what kind of country you want to live in, of course). Obama will eventually get some things changed. Whether that means they will be "fixed" is, of course, a very different question. Change is not always fixing. Sometimes it is breaking.

And, finally, predictions can also be facts. In fact, all true predictions are (or become) facts.


Absolutely agree with your point of view :detective:, and learn something new today

Code:And, finally, predictions can also be facts. In fact, all true predictions are (or become) facts.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 01:11 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;94865 wrote:
There is only so much a president can do. That is how the Constitution fashions it. For example, Obama proposes, but the Congress (and the Courts) disposes. I am pretty happy about that since I don't want a president to have so much power that he can reverse whatever policies and laws he wants to reverse.


This isn't exactly true, there is a way for any president to write anything into law that he wants. It's called an executive order. Although if you look it up you'll see a whole lot of information that talks about what it was intended for but not what it has actually done. There have been over 13,400 written and they effect major policies and laws. The only reason the president doesn't use them for more controversial subjects like health care or gun control is because of the large backlash it would cause.

Most of these executive orders are for things like bypassing who is recorded on the visitation list to the white house, since it was required in the past that all records must be kept on who visits. But since they didn't want certain lobbyists to get into trouble the president wrote an executive order making them exempt to the rule.

Eventually this power will be abused and has been abused already.

YouTube - bush's Executive Order#13422- Total Control Over Agencies
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 06:01 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;95124 wrote:
This isn't exactly true, there is a way for any president to write anything into law that he wants. It's called an executive order. Although if you look it up you'll see a whole lot of information that talks about what it was intended for but not what it has actually done. There have been over 13,400 written and they effect major policies and laws. The only reason the president doesn't use them for more controversial subjects like health care or gun control is because of the large backlash it would cause.

Most of these executive orders are for things like bypassing who is recorded on the visitation list to the white house, since it was required in the past that all records must be kept on who visits. But since they didn't want certain lobbyists to get into trouble the president wrote an executive order making them exempt to the rule.

Eventually this power will be abused and has been abused already.

YouTube - bush's Executive Order#13422- Total Control Over Agencies


The president cannot raise taxes by Executive Order. He cannot pass a health care bill, by executive order. He could try to do anything he likes by EO, for instance, dismiss the Congress, and put the Supreme Court into jail. But that does n't mean he could do it. Just because there are certain things he is able to do by EO doesn't mean he is able to do other things by EO. For instance, Richard Nixon could not stay on as president by EO. And Clinton could not prevent his impeachment by EO.
 
Arjuna
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 07:14 am
@Arjuna,
News from the front:

I've been asking more people I know about Obama being the actual Antichrist and my feeling of being in a Twilight Zone episode grows. It's like they all went to a meeting I wasn't invited to. Some of them begin quoting passages from Revelations. They don't all necessarily believe it, but they don't seem to have my sense of having just walked into a work of fiction, or somehow stepped into a medieval painting. I'm still trying to figure out what's going on here. And William: so far, the groups I've found which seems to be immune from the shenanigans is immigrants and liberals. The guy from Kenya just stared at me when I asked. My friends don't think Obama is the Antichrist. When I brought it up to them, they just fired off as if it was a matter of politics. They didn't seem to understand: there is a strain of folklore here that has taken hold in what I will testify are really normal people. Maybe I didn't really understand what normal people are in the first place. I assume this is some regional issue.
 
Lily
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 07:41 am
@Arjuna,
:lol:ha! People have always said that the leader which they disagree with is antichrist. You can get pretty much every name to 666 if you try hard enough.
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 07:57 am
@Arjuna,
But to think people actually believe this kind of nonsense... I really am just astonished. Perhaps I shouldn't be, kennethamy.

I just wonder why people believe that a black president is an "Antichrist", but then don't believe Humpty Dumpty or the characters in The Lord of the Rings are real. What's the distinction? I guess to delve into this philosophically, what makes some fantastical stories more believable than others? What are the qualities one seeks that makes them more likely to believe X children's book over Y children's book? The only thing I can think of in this case is that "Antichrist" is related, in some way, to religion. Does acknowledging that an "Antichrist" is here somehow gain them favor from "God"?

I guess that would make sense...

If I were alive in the medievil ages.
 
Arjuna
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 08:38 am
@Zetherin,
I'd like to know if this sort of thing has a single source or if it pops up grass-roots like. Or maybe both. A single clergyman making claims couldn't have much affect if it weren't for predispositions.

I have to figure that I'm looking at a fanciful language for expressing something real. Somehow Obama is a symbol of something... and the image of the Antichrist reveals the nature of this something... ancient views of the Antichrist are multifaceted, it has to do with the end of the world.. a sense of horror...of the type that goes with believing that the Pope is the Antichrist... a sense of everything being turned upside down... there's a sense of betrayal maybe, a notion of fraud.

I grew up at the end of the Cold War and my generation has used the image of the Antichrist as part of its poetic examination of a child's impressions of global nuclear war being brought about by ourselves... like America is ready and able to bring about massive destruction in order to protect itself.. there's a profound inner horror associated with this. But for my generation, the use of the image was clearly poetic... allowing us to objectively see and hear our inner experiences precipitated out as music and visual art.

When people take the image literally, they leave behind my experiences of the image and go somewhere I don't know how to follow. I begin to fear for them... in the way I might fear for a friend who I see becoming delusional. But maybe there's nothing to fear here. Maybe it's all normal. I come back to trust in people. Trust that comes from the realization that I don't really have anything to lose if I trust. You know?
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 08:56 am
@Arjuna,
Arjuna wrote:

When people take the image literally, they leave behind my experiences of the image and go somewhere I don't know how to follow. I begin to fear for them... in the way I might fear for a friend who I see becoming delusional. But maybe there's nothing to fear here. Maybe it's all normal. I come back to trust in people. Trust that comes from the realization that I don't really have anything to lose if I trust. You know?


I think if someone thinks Obama is an "Antichrist", they're delusional. Maybe it's normal to be delusional, but that doesn't mean it's not delusional. But I think we should be sympathetic as you seem to imply. Also, I think your analysis on the term "Antichrist" definitely holds some truth.

I don't quite understand what you mean by "trust" here, though. You mean you go back to trusting that these people are delusional? If so, I also trust they're delusional. Otherwise, did you mean you stop trusting people that believe in these sorts of things, but then go back to trusting them again? Well, I could definitely see why. Or did you mean more generally, like, "I have hope in humanity" kind of thing?
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 09:40 am
@Zetherin,
Im sorry to say it appears systematic of the attitude of many Americans in their violent reaction to the election of a black man. The silent right wing fools have suddenly found their voice and they will attempt to chip away at the promise he gave us all. Their voices are well supported with money from threatened corporations in the health business and fundamentalists whose extreme views get little airing or support from his administration.

I notice the Hollywood stars can openly support a rapist but not the necessary legislation required in the changes to health care. He needs support not this sickening name calling, we got rid of one obscene word and the perverts invent another.
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 09:45 am
@Arjuna,
xris wrote:

Im sorry to say it appears systematic of the attitude of many Americans in their violent reaction to the election of a black man.


Many Americans don't care what skin color their president has. Nor do many believe he's an anti-christ, anti-freeze, or anti-depressant pill. Just hope you didn't mean you think this violent reaction is the general reaction.
 
Arjuna
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 10:30 am
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;95169 wrote:
I don't quite understand what you mean by "trust" here, though.

First of all, I don't really hold myself as the standard for what's sane. I don't actually know they're delusional because I can't point to any criteria for determining who's sane. I notice my emotional reaction to the people I've been talking about is one of concern. From my point of view, they seem to be lost in illusion. So far, none of them has placed much significance to Obama being black. There's more focus on the possibility that he's secretly a Muslim. This goes back to the old meaning of the Antichrist as one who hides a horrible truth. The fact that Obama is black is not hidden... and his race doesn't really push any horror buttons. One guy brought up the notion that Obama is leading the country toward socialism. I could have launched into a long lecture about the US culture's ongoing progression toward socialism, but instead I just mentioned that the economic crisis we're in preceeded Obama. "yea, but he's making it worse." was basically the response. I definitely think that the US culture has been operating on "crisis overload" for decades now. It's seemed that any way one turns, there's some unsolvable impending catastrophic event. I have noticed that every generation does a certain amount of suggesting that things were much better in the old days. It adds a little drama to life to imagine that our times are dramatically worse. Nevertheless, I believe that the banking system of the US has been unstable for years, that we've been living with known facts about the financial underpinnings of Medicare and Social Security... but just tossing concern into the pile of "problems with no solution." The grave atrocity I see Obama committing is that he's not ignoring the pile. I'm wondering if the backlash toward Obama is a desire to kill the messenger.

Ok, so this is what scares me: as we proceed in the coming years through some difficult adjustments, we need to operate with a little faith that everything's going to be ok... that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. This "blaming" thing obviously has Muslims tangled up in it... and the addition of supernatural images of doom and abomination is unnerving. I won't stand for it... like I know what to do about it. The truth is I don't know what to do about the foggy image I see in the crystal ball. Do I just toss it on the "unsolvable problems" pile? Do I face it and diffuse some of its energy by going "German" on my aquaintances and asking them to "get real?" As I said: in regard to Bush being just like Hitler, I learned that arguing only solidified my friend's notions.

What I meant by returning to trust, is the idea that you should be the way you want your world to be. I want people to have trust in each other, in America, and trust that whatever the future holds, we'll handle it.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 10:49 am
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;95174 wrote:
Many Americans don't care what skin color their president has. Nor do many believe he's an anti-christ, anti-freeze, or anti-depressant pill. Just hope you didn't mean you think this violent reaction is the general reaction.
Im not saying its general but from the news it appears many are using any tactic to unseat his agenda. Just look at the money spent on advertising as a tool against his legitimate pronounced election promises. It appears money has more say than votes, win the election and then hopefully the propaganda fed press before the peoples wishes are fulfilled.
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 11:13 am
@xris,
xris;95182 wrote:
Im not saying its general but from the news it appears many are using any tactic to unseat his agenda. Just look at the money spent on advertising as a tool against his legitimate pronounced election promises. It appears money has more say than votes, win the election and then hopefully the propaganda fed press before the peoples wishes are fulfilled.


Oh, your point was simply that lobbyists have the actual control. Then you'd be right! Money does have more say than votes, but it has been that way way before Obama, hasn't it?

I think people are just skeptical about his agenda. I've only recently been ignoring the hyperbolic "Change" slogan and really been digging into what he's actually doing - particularly healthcare-related since I work for one of the biggest healthcare providers in my area. To tell you the truth, I think his intentions are well, but I'm still skeptical as to how his ideas will pan out. But my skepticism has nothing to do with his race, religion, or brand of deodorant.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 5 Oct, 2009 11:18 am
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;95192 wrote:
Oh, your point was simply that lobbyists have the actual control. Then you'd be right! Money does have more say than votes, but it has been that way way before Obama, hasn't it?

I think people are just skeptical about his agenda. I've only recently been ignoring the hyperbolic "Change" slogan and really been digging into what he's actually doing - particularly healthcare-related since I work for one of the biggest healthcare providers in my area. To tell you the truth, I think his intentions are well, but I'm still skeptical as to how his ideas will pan out. But my skepticism has nothing to do with his race, religion, or brand of deodorant.
I have no problem with intelligent objections but the health for wealth lobby are determined it wont see the light of day because of vested interests. Any one with any sense must see that your health system stinks, not unless your in insurance or the mediracket.
 
 

 
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